Interview conducted by Aston Paiva
1. What area of practice are you in, and what interests you about it?
I am currently practising in corporate commercial law. I have been involved in this area since I was a pupil. My interest in corporate law developed when I was in my final year.
When I was in university, law students were only exposed to litigation and conveyancing. My classmates were very keen about litigation but I opted otherwise. I never had any interest in becoming a litigation lawyer. After I graduated, I did my internship in a leading corporate law firm in Kuala Lumpur.
2. Have you done Court litigation before? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
I did a bit of litigation during my pupillage. Even though the nine–month pupillage period is only the tip of the iceberg, I felt that litigation was not going to be my cup of tea.
I despise the fact that “waiting” is part of the programme when you have a matter to attend to in court. The litigation lawyers, especially my colleagues, have my endless admiration for being able to face this complex obstacle as an “officer of the Court”.
I am currently practising in corporate commercial law. I have been involved in this area since I was a pupil. My interest in corporate law developed when I was in my final year.
When I was in university, law students were only exposed to litigation and conveyancing. My classmates were very keen about litigation but I opted otherwise. I never had any interest in becoming a litigation lawyer. After I graduated, I did my internship in a leading corporate law firm in Kuala Lumpur.
2. Have you done Court litigation before? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
I did a bit of litigation during my pupillage. Even though the nine–month pupillage period is only the tip of the iceberg, I felt that litigation was not going to be my cup of tea.
I despise the fact that “waiting” is part of the programme when you have a matter to attend to in court. The litigation lawyers, especially my colleagues, have my endless admiration for being able to face this complex obstacle as an “officer of the Court”.
3. How about Court decorum and dealing with Judges? Have you found that to be an issue?
I must confess that there is some fear in me to appear before a Judge; not because of speaking publicly but the fear of being cited for contempt.
I tend to be a little hasty. I generally find Court decorum to be superfluous and I get very vocal when I don’t get things going my way. You could say I have a little problem with “authority”.
I am certain that this kind of behaviour might not necessarily bode well with Judges and other judicial officers and this would put me in hot soup indeed.
4. What are the difficulties you face as a corporate lawyer?
The law governing our corporate world is amended rapidly from time to time.
As a corporate lawyer, one cannot escape from being involved in due diligence exercises. It is really tough, in the sense that I have to review bundles of documents and to be very careful and meticulous when reviewing them. I have to be aware of any critical issue that should be highlighted to the client and the rest of the experts in the working group for a particular transaction.
This is indeed a difficult exercise and therefore requires your full attention. In my experience, due diligence exercises can de–motivate you and can cost you countless nights of sleep but there are lots of benefits to be gained too.
For instance, your drafting skills would improve exponentially as you are constantly being exposed to different agreements while conducting reviews. You become very perceptive and observant and can spot problems in a transaction that may seem “normal” to others.
Over and above that, you’d understand the complexities of different industries and businesses. You also establish good relationships with people from different parts of the commercial sector.
5. Which state in Malaysia are you from?
I am from the Pearl of the Orient. I was born, and grew up, there. I came to Kuala Lumpur to further my studies in 2000. I am a true Penangite and proud to be one. Even my car number plates reflect my state of origin.
6. What makes Penang unique when compared to the other states?
I have to say the food!!! Don’t you know that Penang is a food paradise?
The moment you set your foot in Penang, you’re in food heaven. Whenever I am back in my hometown, rest assured I will be indulging in the local delicacies, especially Nasi Kandar. I cannot refrain myself from having Nasi Kandar for breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper. The curry is cooked to perfection and you can just eat the rice with the curry and nothing else.
Other than the good food, the lifestyle there is not as hectic as in Kuala Lumpur. The Penangites live in a calm environment. Penang is the best place for a holiday.
What I like most about Penang is the travelling time. The distance from one place to another place isn’t that far. Once, I had to run some errands (paying the bills, buying groceries, picking up my nephew and niece from schools) for my Mum and I was done in half a day, which I know I would not be able to do in the same amount of time in Kuala Lumpur.
These are off the top of my head but there are lots more things that make Penang great.
7. Penang seems to also be known for its religious pluralism. What are your thoughts on religion generally?
Religion exists to provide guidance to humans. I believe that religion teaches us to do well to others and to despise evil.
As children, we are taught to acknowledge religion as a guide in our lives. The moment we open our eyes to the world, we follow the religion of our parents. But being a Malaysian, I am glad that I am able to learn about other religions from society as well. What I can conclude is that all religions are the same save for we believe in different Gods.
Religion is also a subject which no one dares to dispute on. Perhaps we have become comfortable with believing in the power of the Creator.
8. How do you perceive your religion?
As a Muslim, I am well aware of the historical aspects of my religion. When I was a child, my Dad used to read to me the history of my beloved prophets; from Adam to Muhammad. I am proud to be a Muslim and I will uphold the same until my deathbed.
Nonetheless, our perceptions and views on religion are inevitably influenced by the conduct of humans from time to time.
Since the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident, the world has taken a different view on Islam. Islam has been portrayed as a religion which encourages inhuman acts due to, amongst other things, the concept of “Jihad”. The Muslims too seem to misunderstand the concept of “Jihad”.
9. What exactly is “Jihad”?
When put in a Western context, “Jihad” seems to refer to “Holy War”. That’s how Islam has been painted as; a religion that goes around declaring war with others. That is certainly not the case. Jihad has many facets.
The military Jihad was initially formed during the migration of Prophet Muhammad and his followers from Mecca to Medina. A military Jihad was required owing to the oppression that the Muslims were subjected to while in Mecca. The Muslims were required to defend Islam and to restore the situation in Mecca. During a military Jihad one would be at war with militants and not innocent civilians.
Then, there is a personal facet to Jihad. This means “to strive in the way of Allah”. There is nothing military–esque about this.
Jihad in this respect means that a Muslim is to look into his heart and fight his own personal battles with himself. It is a call to practise self–restraint, to be slow to anger, to cultivate patience and to be tolerant.
This is a Jihad which should underpin the life of every Muslim.
Unfortunately, many young Muslims are ignorant about this and instead risk being influenced by others, namely unscrupulous politicians.
10. What are you views on the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident then?
I truly condemn what Al Qaeda had done to America.
Those responsible had taken an absurd approach in defending Islam by suicide bombing. Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad. Killing innocent civilians is an act of pure evil.
What they did caused hatred in the hearts of Americans against Muslims, which has now led to the outburst on the construction of the Mosque/Islamic Centre in ground zero.
Muslims these days also face increased difficulties in immigration checkpoints in Europe and America. There are indeed human rights issues to take into consideration, eg rights to privacy, freedom of movement and discrimination based on nationality and colour.
These are the consequences of the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident that sadly, had created these misperceptions on Muslims.
11. You mention “unscrupulous politicians” earlier. These days they seem to be a common feature in our society. Would you like to clarify further?
My view is that religion has been used as a medium in the political arena to gain support from those who might be a little fragile in their understanding of their religions.
It is sad to see my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters being influenced by the ridiculous views on non–Muslims. Religion is supposed to guide our lives. It is indeed the most beautiful aspect of our lives.
I believe that “everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it”.
The misconception and misinterpretation of religion have caused a lot of chaos in society; to properly construe the role of religion is the key, we must never manipulate or misinterpret it for our own purpose.
12. A question on interpretation. When we read a religious text like the Qu’ran, do you think we should interpret those texts in line with present circumstances and scientific developments in the 21st century? Or do you think the ideas and opinions propagated in these texts as they were thousands of years ago must be strictly adhered to?
From my point of view, the texts in Qu’ran should be interpreted in accordance with the developments in society. Some that may be applicable in the past may not be relevant to the present.
For example, there is a recommendation to break fast when one is travelling. A Hadis clearly provides that “It is not righteousness to fast while you are travelling” [Hadis Al–Bukhari Vo. 3, 1946]. It is a permission from Allah and there is no sin upon whoever chooses to break his fast when travelling.
We should be aware that when this Hadis was interpreted at that point in time, the Muslims were travelling on feet and the travelling periods were long. They were also travelling on the desert and under the hot sun.
Do I think this view remains applicable in the present? I do not believe so. Presently, we travel in more comfortable conditions and the travelling periods have shortened considerably. Therefore, my view is that we are still required to fast from the break of dawn until the call of Salatul Maghrib.
13. Suppose a person has ceased to believe in a certain religion, should they be free to leave that religion and find meaning elsewhere?
I believe that all religions are against apostasy. In my religion, apostasy is a sin and an apostate is punished with death. However, I’ve taken a liberal approach on apostasy.
As I mentioned earlier, we follow the religion of our parents at the moment we open our eyes to the world. I trust that every person who reaches his puberty and is of sound mind is capable of making his own decisions.
If he thinks that his faith with a particular religion has ceased, he should be free to choose whatever religion he prefers.
14. Should a person be free to not believe in any religion, in other words, to lead a life free from religion?
Similar to my earlier view, an adult is capable of making his own decisions. If he chooses to reject the dogma, he is entitled to lead his life in accordance with his wishes.
15. Finally, I must ask you, do you think religion is still relevant today?
Religion calls for the protection of life and does not sanction for any violation against it.
Regardless of the religion you profess, it always touches on the need for humankind to do no evil unto others. I love this phrase from Confucius “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others”. Sadly, it still fails to capture our minds.
As a believer, I would be at my best, Insya–Allah, with the right concept and interpretation of my religion, to be kind and to do no evil on others.
I must confess that there is some fear in me to appear before a Judge; not because of speaking publicly but the fear of being cited for contempt.
I tend to be a little hasty. I generally find Court decorum to be superfluous and I get very vocal when I don’t get things going my way. You could say I have a little problem with “authority”.
I am certain that this kind of behaviour might not necessarily bode well with Judges and other judicial officers and this would put me in hot soup indeed.
4. What are the difficulties you face as a corporate lawyer?
The law governing our corporate world is amended rapidly from time to time.
As a corporate lawyer, one cannot escape from being involved in due diligence exercises. It is really tough, in the sense that I have to review bundles of documents and to be very careful and meticulous when reviewing them. I have to be aware of any critical issue that should be highlighted to the client and the rest of the experts in the working group for a particular transaction.
This is indeed a difficult exercise and therefore requires your full attention. In my experience, due diligence exercises can de–motivate you and can cost you countless nights of sleep but there are lots of benefits to be gained too.
For instance, your drafting skills would improve exponentially as you are constantly being exposed to different agreements while conducting reviews. You become very perceptive and observant and can spot problems in a transaction that may seem “normal” to others.
Over and above that, you’d understand the complexities of different industries and businesses. You also establish good relationships with people from different parts of the commercial sector.
5. Which state in Malaysia are you from?
I am from the Pearl of the Orient. I was born, and grew up, there. I came to Kuala Lumpur to further my studies in 2000. I am a true Penangite and proud to be one. Even my car number plates reflect my state of origin.
6. What makes Penang unique when compared to the other states?
I have to say the food!!! Don’t you know that Penang is a food paradise?
The moment you set your foot in Penang, you’re in food heaven. Whenever I am back in my hometown, rest assured I will be indulging in the local delicacies, especially Nasi Kandar. I cannot refrain myself from having Nasi Kandar for breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper. The curry is cooked to perfection and you can just eat the rice with the curry and nothing else.
Other than the good food, the lifestyle there is not as hectic as in Kuala Lumpur. The Penangites live in a calm environment. Penang is the best place for a holiday.
What I like most about Penang is the travelling time. The distance from one place to another place isn’t that far. Once, I had to run some errands (paying the bills, buying groceries, picking up my nephew and niece from schools) for my Mum and I was done in half a day, which I know I would not be able to do in the same amount of time in Kuala Lumpur.
These are off the top of my head but there are lots more things that make Penang great.
7. Penang seems to also be known for its religious pluralism. What are your thoughts on religion generally?
Religion exists to provide guidance to humans. I believe that religion teaches us to do well to others and to despise evil.
As children, we are taught to acknowledge religion as a guide in our lives. The moment we open our eyes to the world, we follow the religion of our parents. But being a Malaysian, I am glad that I am able to learn about other religions from society as well. What I can conclude is that all religions are the same save for we believe in different Gods.
Religion is also a subject which no one dares to dispute on. Perhaps we have become comfortable with believing in the power of the Creator.
8. How do you perceive your religion?
As a Muslim, I am well aware of the historical aspects of my religion. When I was a child, my Dad used to read to me the history of my beloved prophets; from Adam to Muhammad. I am proud to be a Muslim and I will uphold the same until my deathbed.
Nonetheless, our perceptions and views on religion are inevitably influenced by the conduct of humans from time to time.
Since the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident, the world has taken a different view on Islam. Islam has been portrayed as a religion which encourages inhuman acts due to, amongst other things, the concept of “Jihad”. The Muslims too seem to misunderstand the concept of “Jihad”.
9. What exactly is “Jihad”?
When put in a Western context, “Jihad” seems to refer to “Holy War”. That’s how Islam has been painted as; a religion that goes around declaring war with others. That is certainly not the case. Jihad has many facets.
The military Jihad was initially formed during the migration of Prophet Muhammad and his followers from Mecca to Medina. A military Jihad was required owing to the oppression that the Muslims were subjected to while in Mecca. The Muslims were required to defend Islam and to restore the situation in Mecca. During a military Jihad one would be at war with militants and not innocent civilians.
Then, there is a personal facet to Jihad. This means “to strive in the way of Allah”. There is nothing military–esque about this.
Jihad in this respect means that a Muslim is to look into his heart and fight his own personal battles with himself. It is a call to practise self–restraint, to be slow to anger, to cultivate patience and to be tolerant.
This is a Jihad which should underpin the life of every Muslim.
Unfortunately, many young Muslims are ignorant about this and instead risk being influenced by others, namely unscrupulous politicians.
10. What are you views on the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident then?
I truly condemn what Al Qaeda had done to America.
Those responsible had taken an absurd approach in defending Islam by suicide bombing. Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad. Killing innocent civilians is an act of pure evil.
What they did caused hatred in the hearts of Americans against Muslims, which has now led to the outburst on the construction of the Mosque/Islamic Centre in ground zero.
Muslims these days also face increased difficulties in immigration checkpoints in Europe and America. There are indeed human rights issues to take into consideration, eg rights to privacy, freedom of movement and discrimination based on nationality and colour.
These are the consequences of the 9/11 World Trade Centre incident that sadly, had created these misperceptions on Muslims.
11. You mention “unscrupulous politicians” earlier. These days they seem to be a common feature in our society. Would you like to clarify further?
My view is that religion has been used as a medium in the political arena to gain support from those who might be a little fragile in their understanding of their religions.
It is sad to see my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters being influenced by the ridiculous views on non–Muslims. Religion is supposed to guide our lives. It is indeed the most beautiful aspect of our lives.
I believe that “everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it”.
The misconception and misinterpretation of religion have caused a lot of chaos in society; to properly construe the role of religion is the key, we must never manipulate or misinterpret it for our own purpose.
12. A question on interpretation. When we read a religious text like the Qu’ran, do you think we should interpret those texts in line with present circumstances and scientific developments in the 21st century? Or do you think the ideas and opinions propagated in these texts as they were thousands of years ago must be strictly adhered to?
From my point of view, the texts in Qu’ran should be interpreted in accordance with the developments in society. Some that may be applicable in the past may not be relevant to the present.
For example, there is a recommendation to break fast when one is travelling. A Hadis clearly provides that “It is not righteousness to fast while you are travelling” [Hadis Al–Bukhari Vo. 3, 1946]. It is a permission from Allah and there is no sin upon whoever chooses to break his fast when travelling.
We should be aware that when this Hadis was interpreted at that point in time, the Muslims were travelling on feet and the travelling periods were long. They were also travelling on the desert and under the hot sun.
Do I think this view remains applicable in the present? I do not believe so. Presently, we travel in more comfortable conditions and the travelling periods have shortened considerably. Therefore, my view is that we are still required to fast from the break of dawn until the call of Salatul Maghrib.
13. Suppose a person has ceased to believe in a certain religion, should they be free to leave that religion and find meaning elsewhere?
I believe that all religions are against apostasy. In my religion, apostasy is a sin and an apostate is punished with death. However, I’ve taken a liberal approach on apostasy.
As I mentioned earlier, we follow the religion of our parents at the moment we open our eyes to the world. I trust that every person who reaches his puberty and is of sound mind is capable of making his own decisions.
If he thinks that his faith with a particular religion has ceased, he should be free to choose whatever religion he prefers.
14. Should a person be free to not believe in any religion, in other words, to lead a life free from religion?
Similar to my earlier view, an adult is capable of making his own decisions. If he chooses to reject the dogma, he is entitled to lead his life in accordance with his wishes.
15. Finally, I must ask you, do you think religion is still relevant today?
Religion calls for the protection of life and does not sanction for any violation against it.
Regardless of the religion you profess, it always touches on the need for humankind to do no evil unto others. I love this phrase from Confucius “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others”. Sadly, it still fails to capture our minds.
As a believer, I would be at my best, Insya–Allah, with the right concept and interpretation of my religion, to be kind and to do no evil on others.