Contributed by the National Young Lawyers Committee
“Unjustified to call us crazy”
Hema obtained her LLB from the University of London and a degree in Biochemistry from the University of Malaya. She was called to the Bar in early October 2007. She is currently working in a firm in Ipoh. Donovan Cheah spoke to her.
Firstly, congratulations on being called to the Bar. How did it go?
Thank you! I think my ‘long call’ went pretty well. I wanted my call to be really personal and with just some family members and a few close friends, but I was actually advised by some of the partners in my firm and the Perak Bar as well to invite some of the other senior practitioners in the fraternity. I had very little time to do so because I had a very short date, and I only managed to call about 20 of them but it was really a tremendous show. On my call day, about 60 lawyers turned up – it felt like a Perak Bar function! I was very overwhelmed that the Perak Bar gave a very supportive show, and it was very welcoming. It was just a good feeling, to be welcomed like that into this arena.
You were called before Justice VT Singham. Earlier in June, his Lordship commented that chambering applications before his court were always being corrected by affidavits. Do you think that the applications should be streamlined or made easier or do you think it is just the attitude of the pupils?
I think it's both. To be honest, in the initial stages – there seems to be no actual guidelines on what you're supposed to do. You have to gather this information from your peers and other pupils. You end up needing to have these ‘connections’ with the other pupils to know what to do and how to do it. If you come from a very big firm, that's not a problem because there will be like 20 other students to help you out. But when you're in a smaller establishment and you're the only pupil, that's a little bit difficult. In my firm, there were 4 of us together and we would watch out for each other and check our documents before we filed them. I think in the cases where problems arise, it's usually where the pupil has no one to assist them.
With that in mind, should there be changes in the current pupilage process in Malaysia?
I really think it would have to be the Ethics course. I think it comes too late in the day. A lot of the things they teach you in the Ethics course like how you should address the judges and the registrars – we kind of figured it out earlier on by ourselves. By the time I sat for the Ethics course, I was in my 8th month of chambering and I think that's a bit too late. The Ethics course is supposed to assist you and prepare you towards being in the legal profession and how to handle it. It doesn't make any sense when they are telling you how to file your papers and what is a ‘short call’, when you're already going to finish your pupilage. When you finally sit for the exam it is like you are sitting the exam based on your own personal experiences instead of what you learnt in the Ethics course. I think this is especially important for those of us in states other than Kuala Lumpur and Penang. In Perak, they hardly ever organise an Ethics course. We're entirely dependant on the Ethics courses in Kuala Lumpur and Penang but to be on the list for those courses you have to wait in line. They put you on a holding list and that's why there is such a delay.
Other than that, how would you describe your pupilage?
It's a big learning process and it's definitely a very necessary process. All this time you're just studying the academic part of it, so this is your big opportunity to gather as much practical experience as is necessary. You have to equip yourself with drafting skills and make a decision about things like what kind of area you want to concentrate on, and what kind of firm you want to be part of. It's a very crucial period of time and for me it was very beneficial. I did not waste one day. Everyday is a learning process and coming from Perak, and not from a big firm like those in Kuala Lumpur, you are compelled to go to court almost every day. You get a lot of exposure and you get to go to court really often which I think is something that was really beneficial to me.
Now that you've completed your pupilage, what was the one thing you know now that you wish someone had told you before you started chambering?
The one thing I would think of is that fear about going to court. People tend to put this fear into you that when you go to court, you're going to face the wrath of the judges the moment you step through the door. The fact of the matter is; all that is required of you is to know the file and the facts and a little bit of the law for you to go court. I wish someone had told me not to have that kind of fear when you go to court. The judge, if he's going to ask you questions – it's for his own clarification. He's not asking you questions to dissect your intelligence or punish you or anything like that.
So it's safe for me to assume that you haven't had any bad experiences in court?
No, not really. The judges and registrars in Ipoh don't really treat you that differently even if you are a pupil. They're actually pretty accommodating and sympathetic towards chambering pupils. If they feel you are stumbling or bumbling they'll actually assist you. Their demeanour may come off a bit authoritative but I think they are still trying to be helpful.
Speaking of receiving help, as a pupil you no doubt received a lot of advice from senior practitioners. What is the one piece of advice that stuck with you all this while?
Different people have taught me different things. My former boss, his way of giving me guidance – apart from all the drafting and litigation skills – he also educated me about the more practical aspects of practice like marketing yourself, going out into the world and how to approach and meet and handle clients, how to assist them, how to be more than just a lawyer. I think that's very crucial and a lot of people don't stress enough this aspect. A lot of people are just concerned with getting the academic part down. So that's constantly at the back of my head. My current boss – he is like a mentor to me. He is very practical. The law may state that these are the causes of action and the remedies but he looks at everything – whether it's worth going to litigation or to settle out of court. He taught me to figure out what is the most practical remedy to be taken. These are skills you don't learn in law school.
Before you commenced your pupilage, you worked as a patents and designs executive in one of the bigger firms in Kuala Lumpur. What would you say is the main difference between working in Ipoh and Kuala Lumpur?
I feel like there is more accessibility to the partners themselves in Ipoh. Probably if you are in a big firm in Kuala Lumpur, you may not really work directly with the senior partners because you have tiers. There will be a senior legal assistant and another legal assistant below that who you would have to report to. In a smaller establishment – you really don't have a choice. You have work closely with the partner. The advantage that I think I had, working in a smaller firm, was that I didn't have to be definite and sure what area of practice I wanted to specialise in just yet. As there are so few people in the firm and a wide variety of work, I had to switch from one area to another. One day it was banking and then arbitration and then construction and the next day it would be intellectual property or administrative law. You really had to learn to adapt quickly. Also, I feel it's more laidback in Ipoh, and I mean it in a good sense. People don't get stressed up easily here. There is a very homely kind of atmosphere. For instance, I only take 5 minutes to get to work, I don't have to wade through traffic and I don't have to be stressed by the time I reach the office. The whole area is accessible that however far you are in the city it only takes you at most 15 minutes to get to court. You don't have all this manic and panic about being late to court and stuff like that.
It sounds pretty peaceful over there, but I'm sure there are days you need to unwind as well. What's a normal night out in Ipoh like?
There's a lot of stuff going on. You have your night life, but it's not heavy duty nightlife like in Kuala Lumpur. You can get together a few friends and go out and have a couple of drinks. It's the kind of nightlife for people who aren't into head–banging music or stuff like that. If you're into that, then I would have to say that Ipoh really isn't the place for you. I would say Ipoh's more suitable for wining and dining – even the partners encourage that kind of going out, to have our Bar functions and our games and really just mingling with the other members of the Bar.
Having tasted both ‘worlds’, do you see yourself staying on in Ipoh or maybe coming back to Kuala Lumpur in the future?
I don't know, I really don't know. For the time being, Ipoh is very very nice. For anyone to start off their careers, I think it's a perfect place to start. It's just that sometimes probably you don't get to do stuff like due diligence, for the simple reason most firms here don't have the manpower to conduct things like that. I think for someone who's already done the basics of litigation and wants to do other things and expand themselves thereon, then I guess probably they should move on to a bigger firm in Kuala Lumpur.
I don't think that we can avoid talking about the controversial video recording. As someone who has just joined the ranks of the legal profession, has it diminished your optimism somewhat?
The fact that the Malaysian Bar Council has taken a very firm stand is a very reassuring to me as a new member of the Bar. It shows that they are sensitive towards the needs of the Bar in general. The reason I think the Bar is so responsive is because they understand that they will not take certain things very lightly and they want to reassure everyone that the Judiciary can be trusted. But if the Council had not been responsive and swept it under the carpet and didn't speak up then I think I would have been very worried and very concerned.
But our Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz said that the lawyers who participated in the Walk for Justice were ‘crazy’.
You know, I think it's totally insensitive to say that. Lawyers are supposed to be the people who should speak up – it's our innate quality to stand up and say what we're feeling; and to correlate that quality with the Opposition? It just doesn't make any sense. We are supposed to speak out for every person, people who cannot voice opinions on their own. We become lawyers for these reasons, to stand up for these principles. It was just very unjustified to say what he said. I think anybody who feels that something is amiss or something needs to be rectified, they should voice it. It's the quality that everyone should have.
Let's say you're put in charge of the entire judicial system for one day with absolute, unfettered powers. What's the first thing you would change?
I am for the Bar Council's suggestion that there should be an independent body appointing judges. There should be total transparency and that there should be total independence. I also believe that a certain degree of importance should be given to the seniority of judges and their experience, when deciding which judge to elevate. That would put to rest any sort of questions or doubts the credibility of the Judiciary.
Other YL Personalities:
Kho Yieng San
Ng Li Lin
Karthigesan
a/l Shanmugam
Juna Binti
Jusoh
Syamsuriatina
Ishak
Albert Ding
Choo Earn
Sulaiman Bin
Abu Bakar
Nasdrul Umur
Bin Shamsulhuda
Elaine Daly
Devkumar
Kumaraendran
Sandesh Kabir
Singh
Edelina Sophia
Binti Sophian Pulle
Mohd Busyairy
Bin Che Muda
Wong Fook Meng
Fadiah Nadwa
Fikri
Lee Chooi Peng
Angeline Cheah
Yin Leng
Mishant a/l
Thiruchelvam
Shahrizal Bin
Mohd Zin
Rezalman B.
Bahran
Gavin Tang Cheng
Loong
Noreen Ahmad
Ariff
Nadia Ashikin
binti Maduarin
David Dinesh
Mathew
Nizam Bashir
Bin Abdul Kariem Bashir
Amer Hamzah
Bin Arshad
Ernie
Suffiani Binti Salim
Ahmad Syukri
Bin Yusoff
Dipendra
Harshad Rai
Soo Wee Loon
Tracy Hah
Aminuddin bin
Abdullah