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Bar forum on conversions stopped after one hour

Sunday, 10 August 2008 08:56am

Bar forum on conversions stopped after one hour ©New Sunday Times (Used by permission)
by Alang Bendahara

• No more such open discussions, says Bar chief
• Forum cut short to avoid tension, says Syed Hamid

KUALA LUMPUR: The Bar Council public forum on conversion to Islam on its premises here yesterday was stopped after about an hour on the advice of the police.

Police had advised the organiser to do so in view of the danger posed by protesters against the forum participants, Dang Wangi district police chief Assistant Commissioner Zulkarnain Abd Rahman said.

"We have the authority to tell them that (at any event) if there is a threat towards the public."

Zulkarnain said council members had abided by the police advice.

He said police found two bottles of unknown substances on the steps in front of the building in Leboh Pasar Besar, which were taken away by a bomb disposal unit for examination.

Hundreds of representatives and members of 29 Muslim non-governmental organisations and political parties had gathered in stages in front of the council's building from 8am.

Some 100 policemen were deployed and Federal Reserve Unit personnel had formed two lines in front of the building entrance to block the crowd.

The crowd carried banners written with words such as "Don't Challenge Islam" and shouted calls through hailers towards the building, demanding a stop to the forum.

Among the protesters were Peninsular Malay Students Federation vice-president Jais Abdul Kari, Muslim Consumers Association of Mal-aysia complaint officer Imran Yusof, Pas Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub, who is also Kubang Kerian member of parliament, Muslim Organisations in Defence of Islam (Pembela) exco member Zulkifli Noordin, who is also Kulim Bandar Baharu MP, and Pekida Malaysia supreme council member Mohd Syahrir Abdul Aziz.

At 9.30am, after a meeting with Zulkarnain, Zulkifli addressed the crowd and told them that the Dang Wangi police chief had got the council to call off the forum at 10am.

Zulkifli and several of the protesting leaders then went into the building and appeared again at 10.30am.

By 10.40am, the crowd had cleared the area, giving a chance to the forum members to leave the building without police escort.

Later, Zulkifli said although he was satisfied that the target to stop the forum was achieved, the protesting leaders would pursue a formal apology from the council.

"We are also issuing it a warning not to hold such a public forum again."

No more such open discussions, says Bar chief

KUALA LUMPUR: Bar Council president Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan said it would hold no more open forums on Muslim conversion after one was cut short by protesters yesterday.

The forum, titled "Conversion to Islam: Article 121(1a) of the Federal Constitution: Subashini and Shamala Revisited", scheduled for half a day from 9am, lasted for an hour.

Midway through the second session, Ambiga announced that she was submitting to police advice to call off the event.

"Due to security concerns, we have been advised by the police to wrap it up by 10am."

By then, three women had narrated their experiences including the legal implications of their family members' conversion to Islam.

In the second session, lawyers Mohd Haniff Khatri Abdulla, K. Shanmuga and Ravi Nekoo spoke on the legal wrangles in the R. Subashini and S. Shamala cases after their husbands had converted to Islam without their knowledge.

The forum was moderated by Zarizana Abdul Aziz of the Women's Centre for Change.

Police allowed in three representatives of the demonstrators led by lawyer and Kulim Bandar Baharu member of parliament Zulkifli Noordin of Parti Keadilan Rakyat.

They demanded a stop to the forum on the grounds that it touched on religious sensitivities. Heated words were exchanged between some members of the floor and the trio before police cooled the situation.

Before closing the forum, Ambiga said it was never the council's intention to upset any party.

"We have no issue or quarrel with anyone who has a different point of view.

"We respect everybody's views in this building and that is what the Bar Council is about."

She later said the organisers had expected the representatives to engage in discussions when they were allowed in.

"Instead, they turned emotional and we are disappointed."

There were no plans for another forum in the future, she said.

"Even if we do have one, we would prefer to hold it behind closed doors."

Over the previous two days, political leaders from both government and opposition had cautioned the council that an open discussion of such a sensitive subject would spark a backlash.

The council ignored the warnings and proceeded with the forum.

Forum cut short to avoid tension, says Syed Hamid

KOTA TINGGI: The forum by the Bar Council in the federal capital was ended early yesterday to avoid tension and prevent the situation from getting out of control, Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar said.

"We didn't want the anger to lead to any untoward incident," he said in a Bernama report.

Police did well in controlling the situation, he said.

Syed Hamid said he hoped the council got the message that "there are certain things that are out of bounds for public discussion, even if held in a private place".

He said cases involving the conversion of a person to Islam could be referred to the courts for resolution.

In Ipoh, Gerakan national legal bureau chairman Datuk Chang Ko Youn said the forum should have been allowed to go on.

"There are many ancillary issues arising out of the provisions of Article 121(1a) and these must be resolved fast. I believe the forum, if it was allowed to go to its full length, could have found solutions to some of the issues."

Chang, who is also Gerakan vice-president, said the council should not be accused of fanning religious or racial sentiments or being disrespectful to Muslims for organising the forum.

A broad spectrum of Muslim opinion have opposed what they consider to be a public questioning of the status of Islam in the country.

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Correction
written by MBW, Sunday, August 10 2008 10:01 am

The President of the Malaysian Bar, Dato' Ambiga Sreenevasan has informed me that she did not say that there would never be any more such open discussions.

Duty, without fear or favour
written by Chin Oy Sim (Executive Officer), Sunday, August 10 2008 11:03 am

Indeed, I was present and heard the President tell one group of members of the press, who had asked her precisely whether she/the Bar Council would stop holding such forums, that she will continue to do her duty as President, without fear or favour.

Chin Oy Sim
Bar Council secretariat

To NST: Request for Correction
written by Ambiga Sreenevasan, Sunday, August 10 2008 09:05 pm

I refer to your article at page 10 of the New Sunday Times dated 10 August 2008 and in particular under the heading “No more such open discussions, says Bar chief”.

I was shocked to read this headline as at no time did I state that we would not have anymore such open discussions. I was merely responding to a question that we had no immediate plans in the near future to hold an open forum.

I was also completely misquoted when I was reported as saying “Even if we do have one, we would prefer to hold it behind closed doors” as I never spoke those words. What I said was that as the authorities had said that such discussions should be behind closed doors that at least those sorts of discussions should proceed. In fact I had stated that such discussions should be held in an open forum as that was the only way to obtain public feed back. It is the view of the Bar Council that public discussion should be encouraged as these issues affect the lives of ordinary Malaysians. I had also stated that I had faith in the ability of Malaysians to discuss these matters responsibly.

I would therefore like an immediate correction to be made on your online portal and for one to be published in tomorrow’s edition of the New Straits Times, failing which I will have to take the appropriate action as I deem fit.

I would like to add that I am extremely disappointed with the false impression that your article has given in relation to what was said.

Dato’ Ambiga Sreenevasan
President
Bar Council

10 August 2008

Concerned of the issues at hand...
written by Lim Yeeu Ren, Monday, August 11 2008 11:18 am

Well done Dato'.Keep up the good work.

Further reference is made to the article of the New Sunday Times dated 10 August 2008 and in particular under the heading "Bar forum on conversions stopped after one hour".

However I am rather perplexed that Muslim Organisations in Defence of Islam (Pembela) exco member Zulkifli Noordin, who is also Kulim Bandar Baharu MP, and at the same time a memeber of the Bar who was reported to have said that although he was satisfied that the target to stop the forum was achieved, the protesting leaders would pursue a formal apology from the council.

It was further reported that he said "We are also issuing it a warning not to hold such a public forum again."

THE BAR HAS DONE NO WRONG!

What's with this issuing of a warning? A member intends to issue a warning against the Bar when he should as an Advocate & Solicitor sit down to discuss these issues so that a conclusion could be reached for the benefit of all citizens. Nothing is sensitive when one is in a position such as him or any of us. If everything is rigid and sensitive and deemed not open for discussion then I think we should all hang up our robes & call it a day.

Laws are meant to evolve & not be stagnant.If the participants and speakers at the forum of whom some of them are Muslims could attend the forum with an open mind, why not the learned YB who also happens to be a learned friend.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Carpe diem,

Lim Yeeu Ren

Who stirred up trouble?
written by Tan Peek Guat, Monday, August 11 2008 05:23 pm

Whatever our religion, we are merely FOLLOWERS OF THE RELIGION.

That religion being followed does not belong to any particular group of followers. Therefore, no follower of any religion ought to treat that religion as privy to himself/herself/themselves. This is even more so when the religion (e.g., Islam) is being followed world-wide. They ought to be even more careful as to whether the God they worship would be annoyed over their actions.

The Bar did no wrong in its attempt to enlighten the public on any legal aspect of any religion.

The political leaders were the ones who had stirred up trouble.

It is not the Bar Council members.

For that, they ought to be arrested under the ISA - for the same reason under which they had arrested the Hindraf leaders.

Why arrest the Bar Council members who did no wrong?

Tan Peek Guat

Warning to Bar Council
written by Siti Zabedah Kasim, Monday, August 11 2008 06:17 pm

Why does this Zulkifli chap thinks he could say such things? Because he thinks he would get away with this and that he thinks his religion would save him in everything he does or say. In other words, he is getting too big for his own boots! I truly believe, a person such as this, is not worth entertaining, a thug and a hooligan in every way and one day, he would be walking with his tail between his legs. He will get his just desserts.

Siti Zabedah Kasim

Plain sad ! What is so wrong with the forum ?
written by Visvanathan Murugiah, Tuesday, August 12 2008 02:28 pm

Sad to think that Zulikfli is a member of the Bar. So sad to think that a valuable avenue to explore possible solutions in areas of dispute was lost. So sad that it is the politicians and their goons that time and again give Malaysia a bad name.

I sincerely believe that we Malaysians are a mature lot. We Malaysians i.e Muslims and non Muslims alike would be able to sit down and discuss matters in a civil manner.To say otherwise is plain stupid.

Very sad

Visvanathan Murugiah smilies/sad.gif

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