website statistics
feed
Home arrow News arrow Bar News/Berita Badan Peguam arrow Judge: Many lawyers clueless
Advertisement
Judge: Many lawyers clueless PDF Print E-mail
Monday, 26 May 2008 08:32am

Datuk Gopal Sri Ram ©New Straits Times (Used by permission)
by June Ramli

Bar Council aware of problem, but says change will take time
Ability of judges 'also down the drain'
Students say courses focus on exams, not real world
'Poor command of English to blame'

KUALA LUMPUR: The standard of lawyers, most of whom graduated from local universities, range from the good to the grotesque, says a senior judge.

"Many of them are bad because of the low-quality training they received at local institutions of higher learning," Court of Appeal judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram told the New Straits Times after the launch of a book, Malaysian Employment Laws, by M.N. D'Cruz here on Thursday.

Sri Ram, who has been in the legal profession for 40 years, said some lawyers did not have a clue how to introduce their opponents or to cite cases in court.

There was also a large number who did not know how to prepare written briefs, he added.

"The Bar Council should address this problem instead of being distracted by other matters."

He said the professional standard of lawyers, estimated at 13,000, had declined in the last 10 years.

"At Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, for example, I was told that they do not offer company law, which is a core subject if one wants to practise law."

He said many lawyers were also financially strapped because of the high cost of maintaining their practice.

As a result, many could not afford to even buy law journals, which cost between several hundreds and thousands of ringgit per volume.

"Law books to a lawyer are what the scalpel is to a surgeon and making them expensive does not help the profession," he said.

"Many are broke because private practice takes a lot of money; they have to pay their staff and their provident fund and taxes, and when all that is done, nothing much is left."

He said the journal for contract law, for instance, cost RM2,000 and this was because it was printed and published in England.

"Many law journals come from Australia and India while Malaysia produces very few law books.

"This is another reason why it makes it expensive for lawyers.

"That is why the photocopy machines in their offices are kept busy at all times," he added.

He commended the government's decision to replace the Certificate in Legal Practice examination with the Common Bar Examination.

Sri Ram added: "This is a good idea and we should give it our support."


Bar Council aware of problem, but says change will take time

KUALA LUMPUR: The Bar Council has denied that it is ignoring the issue of poor quality lawyers because it has been distracted by other matters.

Bar Council vice-president Ragunath Kesavan said the issue of poor-quality lawyers was "an ongoing issue which needs a comprehensive change of the whole structure".

"I don't think it is an urgent issue. It's an ongoing issue which the Bar Council is well aware of and is taking steps to address," he said.

"The changes cannot be done overnight. They need to be addressed thoroughly."

He was responding to a call by Court of Appeal judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram that the Bar Council address the issue urgently.

Ragunath said some of the steps taken by the Bar Council were to improve the level of advocacy, support continuous legal education and push to replace the Certificate in Legal Practice examination with the Common Bar Examination.

He said this issue was not exclusive to Malaysia, but was also faced by other law fraternities.

He disagreed with Sri Ram that locally-trained lawyers were not up to par.

"It's a question of perception. There are senior lawyers who perform horrendously in court, too. The problem is not confined to locally-trained lawyers.

"The Bar Council has multiple roles to play.

"We have fully funded legal aid, we're fighting for judiciary reform and to uphold the rule of law. All these should go in tandem."

He said the Bar Council could not be expected to monitor all 13,000 of its members individually.

The Bar Council, he said, was a regulator of the profession to ensure that it provided high-quality service to clients.

Ragunath said: "Foreign-qualified lawyers have the advantage of better grasp of the English language.

"But locally-trained lawyers have the advantage of being exposed to Malaysian laws."

On the subject of expensive law journals, he said the Bar Council was looking into an online library system accessible to members.

Members only pay a minimal fee to gain access to the system, which will be implemented in the near future.

"The Bar Council is also giving subsidies to state bar committees to set up their own libraries."


Ability of judges 'also down the drain'

by Marc Lourdes and Evangeline Majawat

KUALA LUMPUR: The decline in the calibre of judges is more glaring than the drop in quality of lawyers, according to a veteran criminal lawyer.

He said judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram's lament on the "low quality" of locally-trained law-yers and his comment that they ranged from the "good to the grotesque" also applied to judges.

"It works both ways. The quality of judges has gone down the drain since the 1980s," he added.

The lawyer, who declined to be named, agreed with Sri Ram's statement that many legal practitioners were a bunch of "broke professionals".

"It is more expensive to practise now because of the increased cost of office rentals and good staff.

"Since there are so many lawyers around, there is also intense competition in terms of fees; so much of undercutting takes place."

He said this was the main reason why lawyers struggled to afford "luxuries" like law journals.

While local journals and law reports were relatively affordable, foreign publications like the Commonwealth Report, the All India Report or the All England Report could cost upwards of RM50,000, he said.

Asked if he agreed with Sri Ram's assessment that poor training was the reason for lawyers faring so badly in court, he replied that it was the lack of passion and the lust for money over self development that were the causes.

"We need people like Sri Ram to come down, talk to the students and motivate them," he added.

Another veteran lawyer said a person might not be broke just because he could not afford law journals.

"This should not be an issue. The journals are expensive and rookie lawyers cannot afford them immediately.

"It doesn't mean that you're a bad lawyer if you don't have the journals.

"The integrity of the lawyers is far more important than the journals."

He said the Bar Council was doing its part by offering a wide selection of law journals to its members.

He denied that lawyers from local universities were poorly trained.

"We're trained under the masters. Generally, there isn't much difference when it comes to being foreign or locally trained.

"I think all lawyers, trained locally or overseas, have the knowledge," he said.

However, he agreed there was room for improvement.

"Knowledge-wise, I think we're doing well. But there is inadequate practical training as the education is examination-based.

"The Certificate in Legal Practice should be more practical-based to prepare the students for pupilage," said the lawyer, who added that the nine-month period in chambers was insufficient.


Students say courses focus on exams, not real world

by Marc Lourdes and Evangeline Majawat

KUALA LUMPUR: Several law students accepted that there is an element of truth to the statement by judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram that they are receiving low-quality training.

They agree that the main problem with the system is that it is too examination-oriented.

A fresh graduate, who is in chambers at a top law firm, said his education did not prepare him for what he was now facing.

"Local institutions focus too much on exams. They do not give you the proper picture of the legal profession and there's no exposure to the real industry.

"When I started chambering, it was a completely different world. Processes, such as the proper way to address judges and the actual art of advocacy, are not taught and it takes years to master."

However, he said, solely blaming the training of local graduates was an unfair generalisation as there was no guarantee that an Oxford-trained graduate would be better than a locally-trained one.

"That said, I do think that local institutions can buck up and do better.

"The fact that there are no Malaysian universities ranked in the top 200 of the Times Higher Education list says a lot about how much we can improve," he said.

A second-year Universiti Malaya law student agreed that there was too much focus on examinations.

"A better idea would be to have a system that is evenly split between course work and exams.

"There are advantages to using assignments as a benchmark because students often do more in-depth research and studying when preparing an assignment," the part-time student said, adding that during examinations, students often just mugged and regurgitated facts and cases.

She said more debates were needed in law school to prepare students for the real world.

"But, it is unfair of Gopal to say that many lawyers these days are of low quality since there was plenty of deadwood in the legal profession even during his time."

Asked if his comments could be demotivating to law students, she replied that they were not.

"Why should they? I look at them as a challenge to prove him wrong."


'Poor command of English to blame'

KUALA LUMPUR: The poor quality of local lawyers boils down to an issue of language rather than training, Universiti Malaya vice-chancellor Datuk Rafiah Salim said yesterday.

Many students did not have a strong command of English, which was why they were struggling in court, she said.

"Our law is based on Common Law and this means lawyers still look up English law and read up on English cases.

"If the students have a better grasp of English, they would be able to practise advocacy better.

"Language is a tool in law and we need to address the issue at primary and secondary school level, as university is not the place to do it, unless you are studying languages."

Rafiah, however, agreed that universities needed to be more focussed in teaching the subject, especially on the procedural aspects of practising law.

"What is being taught in university is not being used by those going into practice," she said.

Comments (5)Add Comment
right upper cut!
written by Dipendra A/L Harshad Rai, Monday, May 26 2008 12:58 pm

"The Bar Council should address this problem instead of being distracted by other matters."

OUCH!

Dipendra A/L Harshad Rai

SEARCH FOR THE LIGHT
written by Stephen Tan Ban Cheng, Monday, May 26 2008 05:16 pm

I see judges blaming lawyers, and lawyers blaming the judges, each party understandably certain that they are right.

With respect, this is the kind of discourse that gets us nowhere. What is needed is to address the consensus that standards are indeed declining. How do we arrest such a phenomenon and turn it around.

Instead of cursing the darkness, can we all agree to search for light to stem the pervasive darkness?

Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Poor Command of English
written by Lim Chong Leong, Monday, May 26 2008 06:49 pm

How is it that students who had poor command of English were allowed to take up Law? As Datuk Rafiah Salim, UM-VC, pointed out, the course required in-depth command of English. So she as Vice Chancellor should answer how the course was open to those who had poor English in the first place. Is it a case of lowering the standard to make the numbers again?

Lim Chong Leong

Jurisprudence is only a word
written by Thangasamy Brown a/l D N Gnanayutham, Monday, May 26 2008 07:24 pm

I am an indian. I am 56. Went to University Malaya in 1973 the year the switch to Bahasa was made. Bahasa was just one subject then. Left for England to do electronics engineering due to the switch. Electronics then was the niche thing then. Never needed Bahasa until I became a lawyer in 2000 when I just did not know what to do in court except to fumble, speak market Bahasa and show off my jacket and do small talk in the courts while waiting for the almighty beings. CLP nor chambering nor the ethics classes did any good for me or anyone else for that matter from what I saw and experienced. In the last 8 years watching the misbehaviour of lawyers and judges and the drama until the Federal Court has left me with a despicable attitude towards this honorable profession or is it the other way around. Only lawyers known to judges etc are given audience and some respect, whereas the others are treated like garbage. I have my firm open but am waiting for the day I will be able to do a honest days work after taking money from the client but don't see that happening with the state of the judiciary and the legal system.

Jurisprudence is only a word.

Thangasamy Brown a/l D N Gnanayutham

Just Sharing My Thoughts
written by Dominic Pillai a/l R.K. Pillai, Monday, May 26 2008 11:42 pm

I just felt like sharing my thoughts on the newspaper reports reproduced above by the Webmaster,so here goes:-

"The standard of lawyers, most of whom graduated from local universities, range from the good to the grotesque, says a senior judge."

Isn't that also the case in respect of lawyers from foreign universities. Just because their parents could afford to spend half a million ringgit on their "foreign" legal education doesn't make them a better lawyer. They may "speak" better having spent all those years abroad and have the advantage of coming from a more affluent and privileged background but does that really make them better lawyers?

On the other hand local graduates are those from University Malaya, International Islamic University, University Kebangsaan Malaysia and UiTM. Many of them do not come from affluent backgrounds and may not be as fluent as the "foreign" graduates but does this make most of them "grotesque" lawyers. Shouldn't a judge be able to see beyond the linguistic capabilties of a lawyer?

In fact the majority of lawyers in Malaysia may have never even been to a university be it local or foreign but have studied in colleges offering "external" degrees and CLP courses operating out of shoplots. I have seen many of such "shoplot" educated lawyers preform much better than those fortunate enough to have a "foreign" degree.So again it would be unfair to generalise.

Whilst I agree with the learned judge that standards amongst lawyers presently leave much to be desired, it is very unfair to insinuate that local universities are to be blamed. In fact I believe that local graduates do not even form the bulk of the lawyers appearing before the learned judge at the Court of Appeal.

The decline in the standards have been happening graduately over a period of time and in my opinion applies pretty much equally to all lawyers whether he/she is a barrister, an Australian graduate, has a CLP or is a local graduate.

Probably the scrapping of the CLP and a Common Bar Course proposed by the "Law Minister" would be a step towards the right direction.

In fact all those who feel strongly about the present standard of lawyers could actually do something to arrest this problem by volunteering their time and expertise in framing the proposed Common Bar Course and/or volunteering to participate as an instructor in such a course.

"The Bar Council should address this problem instead of being distracted by other matters."

Whilst I agree that the Bar should do more in addressing the declining standards, the Bar Council does have a responsibilty to ensure that there is "Justice Through Law" and such "distractions" are sometimes necessary.

"At Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, for example, I was told that they do not offer company law, which is a core subject if one wants to practise law."

The UKM Law Faculty website states that Company and Partnership Law I & II is offered in the 3rd Year.(see http://pkukmweb.ukm.my/~fuu/Ho...urses.html ).

Therefore the learned judge may have been ill informed. In any event I stand corrected.

"He said many lawyers were also financially strapped because of the high cost of maintaining their practice."

I think rising costs affects all professions and not only lawyering. In a free market the fittest will survive.

"As a result, many could not afford to even buy law journals, which cost between several hundreds and thousands of ringgit per volume."

To this end I feel that the Bar Council and Bar Committees should intensify their efforts in making a well stock library available in each state. In some states with large number of practitioners (eg Selangor & Penang), two or more libraries should be set up. This would elivate the burden of the "one man show" who may not have the resources to invest in a library of their own.

Dominic Pillai a/l R.K. Pillai


Write comment
You must be logged in to a comment. Please register if you do not have an account yet.

busy
 
< Prev   Next >
Username Password
Remember Me | Register | Lost Password?

PKR wants to restore immunity of monarchy



show last 4hrs - 24hrs