©Bernama
(Used by permission)
by R.
Surenthira Kumar and S. Tamarai Chelvi
KUALA LUMPUR (Jan 17, 2008): Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad who was prime minister when the Lingam Video Clip, which showed the senior lawyer allegedly brokering judicial appointments, testified in the Royal Commission of Inquiry today. This is what he said:
Question: Tun, were you influenced by any party/ies on the appointment of (Tun) Ahmad Fairuz as the president of the Court of Appeal?
Mahathir: In agreeing to the recommendation, I have to listen to other people’s views … during social meetings … and I have to take them into consideration. But the final decision is made by me.
Q: (Former Chief Justice Tun) Mohamed Dzaiddin asked you to reconsider the two names nominated by him, Dr Andrew Chew and Zainuddin Ismail, for the post of High Court judges?
Mahathir: Yes, true.
Q: Can you explain the reason the two names proposed by Mohamed Dzaiddin were not appointed?
Mahathir: I can’t remember the reason.
Q: Did Datuk V.K.Lingam, Datuk Tengku Adnan and Tan Sri Vincent Tan see you about the appointment of Tan Sri Abdul Malek Ahmad as the chief judge of Malaya?
Mahathir: No.
Q: Was it true Abdul Malek’s appointment was rejected because he was anti–prime minister?
Mahathir: His nomination was rejected, but that was not the reason.
Q. Were your reasons for rejection of Abdul Malek discussed with Mohamed Dzaiddin? The reasons for the non–acceptance, did you discuss it with him?
Mahathir: I listen to a lot of people and make my own assessment. I do not explain to anyone.
Q. Do you know Tan Sri Vincent Tan, and what is the extent of your relationship?
Mahathir: I have known him for many years and have been to his place … we are friends.
Q.. Do you know Datuk V.K.Lingam?
Mahathir: Have read about him. Only knew him lately after I engaged him to represent me in the defamation suit brought against me by Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Q. Could he have been introduced to you by Vincent Tan?
Mahathir: Probably, … could have contacted him through Vincent Tan.
Before Mahathir made an exit, commission member Datuk Mahadev Shankar posed a question to him.
Mahadev: Were your reasons for rejection of Abdul Malek discussed with Mohamed Dzaiddin? The reasons for the non–acceptance, did you discuss it with him?
Mahathir: I listen to a lot of people and make my own assessment. I do not explain to anyone.
Mahadev: Not even to the chief justice?
Mahathir: No.
Dr M: I was not influenced in appointing CJ
KUALA LUMPUR (Jan 17, 2008): Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, testifying today before the panel investigating the Lingam video clip – an unprecedented appearance by a former prime minister before a Royal Commission of Inquiry – said he had not been influenced by any person or party in the appointment of Tun Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim as chief justice.
The 86–year–old statesman was replying to questions from Deputy Public Prosecutor Datuk Nordin Hassan.
He also answered in the negative when asked by Nordin if he had been influenced by anyone in the appointment of other senior members of the judiciary.
Mahathir walked into the court room after the proceedings began at 10am and his name was called as the ninth witness.
It took nearly two minutes before Mahathir, clad in a grey–coloured suit, stepped in and bowed before the Commission.
Mahathir’s aides, lawyers and daughter Datuk Paduka Marina were also present.
After Mahathir took his seat, his lawyer Tengku Sofea Jewa, who was seated in the front–most bench, stood up and said Mahathir had something to convey to the Commission. With her were her colleagues, Datuk Dr Yaacob Hussin Merican and Datuk M. Chandran.
"Our client conveys his assurance to the Commission that he will render his fullest cooperation and answer all questions, even though from our perspective, as his counsel, the questions are not relevant to the terms of reference of this Commission," she said.
Commission chairman Tan Sri Haidar Mohd Noor then told her it is the Commission's duty to control the proceedings of the inquiry and they will conduct it in a manner they deem fit.
Nordin began by asking Mahathir to go through the letter correspondences between him, the former Chief Justice Tun Mohamed Eusoff Chin and former Chief Secretary to the Government Tan Sri Samsuddin Osman on the appointment of judges.
To most of the questions posed on the documents, Mahathir confirmed he received and sent it.
But to the other questions on the rejection of the nomination of two lawyers – Dr Andrew Chew and Zainuddin Ismail – who were nominated for High Court judge positions, Mahathir said he could not remember the details.
Lawyer representing former Chief Justice Tun Mohamed Dzaiddin Abdullah, Wong Chong Wah, then questioned Mahathir.
Wong: Can you remember the time when Mohamed Dzaiddin recommended the deceased Tan Sri Abdul Malek Ahmad for the chief judge of Malaya’s post in favour of former Chief Justice Tun Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim?
Mahathir: I can’t remember precisely, I did hear talks of Abdul Malek being recommended for the post, but the decision was made by me.
Wong: Can you remember not agreeing to Mohamed Dzaiddin’s recommendation to nominate Abdul Malek for the post?
Mahathir: I can’t remember him recommending Abdul Malek for the post.
Wong attempted to refresh Mahathir’s memory by asking him to refer to the correspondence between him and Mohamed Dzaiddin who nominated Abdul Malek for the Chief Judge of Malaya’s post and if he still disagreed with the nomination he could consider Tan Sri Siti Norma Yaacob for the post.
Mahathir: I can’t remember whether I agreed or not … this is a letter from Mohamed Dzaiddin.
Wong: "Do you have in your possession, a copy of the letter dated June 25, 2001, which you sent to Mohamed Dzaiddin pertaining your rejection of Ahmad Malek’s nomination for the post.
Mahathir: No, it is not in my possession.
Wong: Do you remember the contents of the letter?
Mahathir: No, I can’t remember.
Next to question Mahathir was M. Puravalen, the lawyer who represented former Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
He asked Mahathir to rekindle his memories and took him back to sometime in August 1999, in relation to a meeting he had with a former Bank Negara official Datuk Abdul Murad Khalid, in the Palace of Golden Horses in Sri Kembangan.
Puravalen said after the meeting with Mahathir, the senior bank official confessed in a press conference held soon after the meeting that he was the secret banker for Anwar who was implicated for alleged corrupt practices.
Haidar asked Puravalen where his question was headed to and the lawyer said it relates to the presence of the names mentioned in the video–clip, Datuk V.K.Lingam, Tan Sri Vincent Tan, Datuk Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor and also former Attorney–General and Tan Sri Mohtar Abdullah and Inspector–General of Police Tan Sri Rahim Noor.
Puravalen: You have met them previously?
Mahathir: I met a lot of people in many places … I can’t identify all the names.
Christopher Leong from the Bar Council then took his turn to question Mahathir.
He said the questions would be based on the correspondences between Mahathir, Mohamed Dzaiddin and Samsudin over the appointment of the senior judges' posts and also the transcript of the video–clip.
Leong: Would others in the Prime Minister’s Department have, at where Tengku Adnan was a Deputy Minister in–charge of law, have access to these documents?
Mahathir: I am not sure, but the others who are not connected to the matter would not have access to these documents.
Haidar then asked Leong to ask a direct question instead of going in circles.
Leong: Would Tengku Adnan have access to these documents?
Mahathir: "These documents are handled not only by me, but also my secretary, typist and other officers who deal with these documents. If the documents are laid on the table ... people would have access to them.
Leong: Would Tengku Adnan … officially not accidentally, have access to these documents?"
Mahathir: No.
Scrutinised on the rejection of Abdul Malek by Mahathir after he was nominated by Mohamed Dzaiddin for the chief judge of Malaya’s post, Mahathir said he could not recall the incident.
When pressed further for the reason Abdul Malek’s nomination was rejected, Mahathir said: "After hearing people’s views, I made my decision. The prerogative was with me to make the decision. I do not have to tell anyone the reasons."
Asked who the main sources of the information that Mahathir sought from before making his decision, the former premier said he could not remember.
"I talked to the public and also took into consideration the Chief Justice’s views, before I made the decision. The sources were at random ... could be civil servants, senior police personnel, ACA, obtained verbally and not in written form, in order to choose the right candidate," he added.
On the additional names provided by him to the list of nominees to be proposed to be promoted as High Court judges, Leong asked where Mahathir obtained the names from.
"From many of the experienced officers, could be from the Attorney–General Chambers, civil service department and known personalities," said Mahathir.
Leong asked if the names could have been proposed by the former Chief Justice Tun Mohamed Eusoff Chin, Mahathir said he could not remember.
Before Mahathir made an exit, Commission member Datuk Mahadev Shankar posed a question to him.
Mahadev: Were your reasons for rejection of Abdul Malek discussed with Mohamed Dzaiddin? The reasons for the non–acceptance, did you discuss it with him?
Mahathir: I listen to a lot of people and make my own assessment. I do not explain to anyone.
Mahadev: Not even to the chief justice.
Mahathir: No.
‘Lingam must have been mad or drunk’
KUALA LUMPUR (Jan 17, 2008): What Tourism Minister Datuk Seri Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor told the Royal Commission of Inquiry:
Q. When you saw the eight–minute video clip, did you take up to Lingam and say ‘how dare you do this’?
A: He is either mad or drunk. I did not bother to call. I don’t know what he is saying. What he said is not true. I don’t know who he is talking (to).
Q: Until today, you did not take up to him or contact him to clear your name?
A: No
Q. Can you comment on the parts of the transcript of the handphone conversation which made specific references to you?
A. My name is frequently used by other people. I don’t’ know. Maybe my name has value. Aesthetic value. I don’t know why this happens to me.
TOURISM Minister Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor referred to lawyer Datuk V.K. Lingam today as "either mad or drunk" when asked to comment on references made to Tengku Adnan in the video clip.
Tengku Adnan, who testified in the Royal Commission of Inquiry, said this when asked by commission member Datuk Mahadev Shankar if he had taken any steps to "clear his name" since the imputation of the video clip was that Tengku Adnan had breached the Official Secrets Act.
Mahadev: When you saw the eight–minute video clip, the imputation was that you had access to documents and breached the Official Secrets Act, so did you take it up with Lingam and say ‘ How dare you do this’?
Tengku Adnan: He is either mad or drunk. I did not bother to call. I don’t know what he is saying. What he said is not true. I don’t know who he is talking (to).
Mahadev: Until today, you did not take up to him or contact him to clear your name?
Tengku Adnan: No.
Earlier, Tengku Adnan, 53, told the inquiry he knew Lingam, whom he identified as the person in the video clip, because he had business dealings with Lingam when he was a businessman, before he became active in politics in 1999.
Tengku Adnan, who said he had watched the eight–minute video clip on YouTube in Penang last year, said that initially, he could not recognise the speaker, but after looking at it longer, he was able to.
At this point, commission chairman Tan Sri Haidar Mohamed Noor told DPP Azmi Ariffin to let Tengku Adnan watch the video clip.
After watching the full 14–minute video clip, Tengku Adnan was asked again whether he could identify the man and replied: "V.K. Lingam."
Commission member Tan Sri Steve Shim Lip Kiong then asked Tengku Adnan to comment as certain parts of the video clip made specific references to him.
Tengku Adnan said his name was frequently used by other people. "I don’t’ know. Maybe my name has value, aesthetic value," he said.
He said his name was being used "a lot of times, even in the case of collecting donations, building mosques or schools". "I don’t know why this happens to me," Tengku Adnan said.
Earlier, referred to 11 parts of the transcript of the video clip and asked if the statements were true, Tengku Adnan said they were not.
The 11parts of the transcript which Tengku Adnan denied were:
1. so ...Tengku Adnan said ... Aa… . I told Tengku Adnan yesterday I had a meeting with him. He said PM is already very angry with him ... And he said no problem, he said he is going to make you ... Acting or ... aa…confirm your position as PCA ... working very hard and then get Tan Sri Mokhtar as the CJM lah.
2. It ... according to Tengku, I’m going to see him tomorrow, there is a letter sent to ... ah ... CJ … ah I mean to Tan Sri Dzaiddin that Datuk Heliliah, Datuk Ali ... and Datuk Ramli Datuk Ramli and Datuk Ma’arop be made judges … and aa … he rejected ah ... that Dr Andrew Chew and apa itu Zainuddin Ismail lah because Zainuddin Ismail who condemned your appointment and Tan Sri Mokhtar’s appointment.
3. Actually, I told Tengku Adnan to inform PM, PM to call you for a meeting. But I ... I will organise this so that Tengku Adnan will call you directly ... and then I got your number. I will tell him to call you directly to arrange for you to meet PM lah. Ah so should be ok. Then ah ... correct, correct, correct, because it is very important that key players must be there.
4. Ah, but never mind, I will do this... I will get the ... Tengku Adnan to arrange for PM to call you and Tan Sri Vincent Tan ... for PM to call.
5. One day I went to Vincent Tan’s house, I fired ... him at night in the house. I said bloody hell if you don’t do this who will do it? All these people, Tun Eusoff Chin, Datuk Ahmad Fairuz, Tan Sri Zainon all fought for us. Then he called Tengku Adnan. I told Tengku Adnan. He said, saya bukan Perdana Mentri Malaysia lah, you know, if the old man don’t want listen to me, go to hell.
6. But now, the PM is very alert because every time he gets letters from Tan Sri Dzaiddin ... he calls Tengku Adnan, he said discuss with Vincent, come and discuss and ...Yes, yes ... yah, correct ... correct ... Ya, but you see although I know PM, but my views ... I am a lawyer in practice, My views are not ... I go through them, I go through them lah.
7. don’t worry, we will organise this, and if Tan Sri Vincent ... if Tan Sri Vincent and Tengku Adnan want to meet you privately, they will ... I will get them to ... I will call you. We will organise a private arrangement ... in a very neutral place.
8. I ... I am constantly working on this ... I ... Ya, ya, don’t worry, don’t worry, don’t worry ah ... We work hard on this, Datuk, and then aa ... if Tan Sri Vincent and Tengku want to see you, I will organise it in such a ... confidential place.
9. Don’t worry. Dzaiddin recommended Malik … Malik Ahmad to be Chief Judge of Malaya, but we went aa (cluk cluk sound) cut cut cut cut cut (low tones) I ,Tengku Adnan Vincent went and saw PM lah
Chinese Man: Ah
Indian Man: ... (got him) ... thrown out because he is anti PM.
Chinese Man: Ah
Indian Man: We put Fairuz in.
10. So, now I am working very hard. So he agreed to meet Vincent Tan and PM and ah ... What you call ... Tengku Adnan
11. Indian Man: Because ah ... he knows … I am a … but when PM calls me on Anwar’s case, I can tell him ... He he will listen
Chinese man: Ya
Indian Man: But if I go promote so and so, that means I got interest
Chinese Man: Ya, ya, ya
Indian Man: So, I don’t do that
Chinese Man: Ya
Indian Man: I use Vincent and Tengku to go there and I go fuck them up. They go and do that!
When Tengku Adnan was refered to item 10 of the transcript and asked whether it was true, he replied: "Can I say something? He (Lingam) must be drunk!"
To another question, Tengku Adnan said he has known Tan Sri Vincent Tan through business dealings since the 1990s.
Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor said he had never spoken to either Datuk V K Lingam or Tun Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim over the phone.
Tengku Adnan who said he didnt know V.K Lingam very well, described his relationship as "extremely limited" and could not remember the first time he met Limgam, adding that he met a lot of lawyers.
"I knew Lingam as he was used in agreements. That was my relationship, not otherwise," said Tengku Adnan who explained he was then in the panel of one of the Berjaya companies and Lingam (who is a lawyer) was used by the company.
During cross–examination by lawyer Christopher Leong, who represents Malaysian Bar, Tengku Adnan said he did not have Lingam's handphone number and had never spoken to him over the phone, even in respect of work.
Asked whether he knew Fairuz, he answered: "Of course," adding that Fairuz was the Chief judge of Malaya, and that he knew him only in that capacity.
As to whether he had known Fairuz in the "social sense", Tengku Adnan said he did not, and had never spoken to him.
Asked whether, in the course of his duties as deputy minister in the Prime Minister's Department between 2001 and 2002, he had at any occasion discussed the appointment of judges, Tengku Adnan said he had not.
As to whether he had any access to documents ( tendered by former Chief Secretary to the Government Tan Sri Samsuddin Osman) pertaining to appointment and promotions of judges, Tengku Adnan said "No", adding he also did not know where such documents were kept.
He agreed with Leong that he knew Vincent Tan as he (Tengku Adnan) was a shareholder in various companies controlled by Vincent Tan.
But as to whether he was a shareholder of Berjaya Group, Tengku Adnan said he could not remember as it was before 1998, when he was a shareholder of many companies.
To another question, he said he could not remember if he was ever a director of a company called Berjaya Industrial Berhad.
Asked whether he had interaction with Vincent Tan in 2001, Tengku Adnan said they would have met in official functions, "Otherwise, no".
Meanwhile, lawyer M.Puravelan, who represents Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim informed the panel that Anwar will be in Hongkong on Jan 23 and asked if he could testify before that.
He also told the panel that two witnesses (names not revealed) want to assist the inquiry and was told to provide the commission with statements of the witnesses to decide if they need to be called to assist the Inquiry.
Puravelan said he will prepare them overnight and hand them to the Commission to decide if they are relevant to the inquiry.