WALK THE TALK - An indication of LAWYERs' unhappiness about police misconducts - 2006/06/06 01:02It is the MOMENT for us to come together to show our displeasure with the police over the following incidences:-
a) Police Arrest and Detention of lawyer Balasubramaniam at the hands of the PJ Police District headquarters police personel.
b) The manner that 2 other lawyers were wrongfully dealt with
c) The manner in which peaceful protesters were visited by police excessiveness and violence that resulted 2 seriously injured - the KLCC anti-fuel hike demo on 28/5/2006
d) The incident of police torture in the Banting Police Station as witnessed by lawyer N. Surendran, a social activist and one another
e) The numerous "tindakan penyalahgunaan kuasa police"
Emails and articles only reach a number - but now our Preisdent is finally going to see the IGP over (a) and (b) primarily AND he has called for "ACTIVE SUPPORT" in his letter to members. We are meeting at 9-15am on 7/6/2006(Wednesday) Dagaing Court entrance and will march up Jalan Bukit Aman (the entrance opposite Dayabumi) in strength to show our support and such police misconducts.
It will be a sad day if there are just 10 or 50 - we need lawyers in great numbers to come together in support of the Bar Council (somethins we all said we will do at the last October AGM) - at the very least we need over 100 lawyers be part of the group as we march to meet the IGP.
Let us WALK the TALK ..... the time is NOW...
In solidarity,
Charles Hector
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Ng Hong Chai
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Posts: 40
Re:WALK THE TALK - An indication of LAWYERs' unhappiness about police misconducts - 2006/06/06 09:14Has any legal wrong been committed by anyone and if so is any legal recourse available in a court of law? If so why not take this course of action rather than showing our displeasure by marching to Bukit Aman ? Just an idle thought!
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Charles Hector
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Re:WALK THE TALK - An indication of LAWYERs' unhappiness about police misconducts - 2006/06/06 12:53Well, are we unhappy with the state of affair or NOT? We the the people who claim "to uphold the cause of justice without fear or favour" will have to make a response.
Why make it a "public march" to the offices of the IGP - and not just have Yang Poh and a few Bar Council members go and have quite sit down "cordial" meeting with the IGP and possibly raise our concerns with the head of Malaysian police?
Well, this is not a minor problemm that requires a "minor" response - but something serious that saw lawyers (40 or so) protesting at the PJ IPD, about 25 turning up in Parliament when an attempt was made to table an emergency motion on this issue, that saw over 113(now 116) lawyers plave their signature on a memorandum of protest...and as such it needs an "appropriate response" - and this is it.
We know that Malaysians do have a "short memory" and we do hope that lawyers will turn up for if not there will be great embarassment to the Bar Council when a mere 25 (or 40) turned after our President made an aopen and public call to all lawyers to come forth and show "active support"? I believe that any number less than 100 will be bad for the Bar. I do hope that the Bar Council itself is actively reminding and lobbying for its members to come - my concern is that there is no big call for participation on the Bar Website - a letter more than a week ago by the President will not suffice.
What other options do we have? Take legal action - file a suit >>> well, just look at the APCET 2 suit that has just recently commenced -- and this was concerning arrests and detentions that happened in 1996. People are asking what APCET is --- and some are even asking why people were fighting for East Timor (oh yes where is that? Has East Timor got anything to do with this Timur Leste) - yes, that is what happens many a time with a legal suit --- it takes too long after the filing and people forget. Exceptions to this general pace of cases involving human rights is of course the Anwar Ibrahim (and the related Reformasi cases)
What we want to do is not just communicate to the Minister or the police - BUT to shout out against this 'wrongs' to the whole world? We want to re-instill the confidence of the Malaysian public on lawyers - for too many of us are just as fearful as the ordinary Malaysian and just do no fight hard enough for justice and our clients when the opposition is the police and/or the government. It is this kind of public actions that will comfort the ordinary man knowing that Malaysians lawyers are still persons who will fight without FEAR or FAVOUR.
We want change immediately (if not soonest thereafter) - and as such we must highlight, protest and raise it repeatedly so that change come NOW and not ten or twenty years down the road. We want these kind of police behavior and misconduct to stop...and stop NOW.
This form of protest march (or even a signature campaign) allows the individual lawyer to also respond - and this is not becoming a "once in a blue" event not to be missed. We delegate our responses to our leaders, our MPs and others ...adn before long we forget how to make a public response when we see a wrong out there. In Malaysia, our government only wants Malaysians to respond once every 4-5 years at the ballot box - and that is the kind of Malaysian people that the government of the day is cultivating. All kinds of impediments are placed on any other kind of response at any other time.
A public protest march also is educational and it creates public awareness and also also a realisation that "I am not alone" amongst those who feel like minded, and this is very important. Why was there a "media-blackoput" about the fuel hike demos -- because the impression that the state wanted to give was that the majority have accepted it and it was a "non-issue" now - for if not the many persons and pockets of persons will be motivated to come forth and also express their protest and dissatisfaction about fuel hikes and increasing electricity tariffs..
So that is why a clear public protest is needed as a response ...and that is why we have to MAXIMIZE this opportuinity, put FEAR behind us and turn up in numbers because this is an IMPORTANT ISSUE...and we are not there just for lawyers but also for the Malaysian people and our desire for a better just and rights-loving Malaysia of tommorow.
The time is NOW -- come one come all.
In solidarity,
Charles Hector
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Nik Elin Zurina Bt Nik Abdul Rashid
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Posts: 216
WALK THE TALK - 2006/06/06 14:21Actually, let it be known that the IGP will only meet the President of the Msian Bar and some Council members. For they are our elected representatives. They will speak on our behalf.
We can all go there, but only a few "top guns" will be allowed inside the meeting room.
The rest please bring along your umbrellas, camping gear, mineral water, food and snacks, while you wait outside....
Actually in all my years, I have never had the misopportunity to be abused by the police. When they catch me, its because I have committed an offence, and for which the police are merely doing their job of ensuring peace and security to me... (I am always having problems with police for road traffic offences. )
Otherwise, I am quite pally pally with most of the policemen in Kota Bharu. And they give lawyers in Kelantan a whole load of respect.
Whenever I need help, they go to the extent of giving me their hand phone numbers, and telling me, "kalau ada masaalah, puan telefon lah saya... "
When I need to see someone in remand, they are also very helpful and accomodating. Of course, when they want to organise dinner or some sports tournament, they will also come to me and ask whether my firm can buy a dinner table or sponsor a hamper. Of course, they dont force you at all. But your Charge sheet will take a little longer to be sent to you. Human traits.
When I go and meet my client in prison, the Warden even buys me drinks and kuihs after I finish interviewing my clients.
When I accompanied my client recently to IPK KL for my client to give a statement, I was also given very good treatment too. I wonder why?
As for tomorrow morning, I have to attend Court, but I will try to be there before court starts. Anyway, since I am just an inconspicuos person, as K Shan had said, (btw, is he a lawyer?) I will be there inconspicuously.MY KAR MA RAN OVER YOUR DOG MA
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Charles Hector
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Posts: 160
Re:WALK THE TALK - 2006/06/06 15:19We WANT to meet the IGP - and there is NO mention that the IGP will meet only the President (or just a few of us) - who said that? So, do we let them go alone a few of the present leaders - it will be an embarassment to Malaysian lawyers - especially when the president called for "active support" - I just do not understand why some are trying to discourage lawyers from coming out in numbers?
I am also shocked by what Nik said " When I need to see someone in remand, they are also very helpful and accomodating. Of course, when they want to organise dinner or some sports tournament, they will also come to me and ask whether my firm can buy a dinner table or sponsor a hamper. Of course, they dont force you at all. But your Charge sheet will take a little longer to be sent to you. Human traits."
Is this not corruption? Bribery? Buy a table, sponsor a hamper, give an undertable financial assistance to the policeman family welfare, send him a gift or a Hari Raya hamper, belanja makan, and so on so forth - this is what is causing the problems with the police. And if you do not make your "contributions", then "your Charge sheet will take a little longer to be sent to you" - this cannot be justified as "human traits" - it is WRONG very wrong and lawyers who do this is corrupting the criminal justice system.
We have heard of lawyer "A" is controlling this Balai...and "B" is controlling this other Balai - and some say that is why lawyers do not get access --- because only some "preferred 'friendly' lawyers get access to certain Balai and certain prisons. This is VERY wrong -- whether it happens in the criminal justice system or in our courts when a RM50 or RM100 is handed over to the clerk of the Registrar to expedite the sealing of a Summons and/or a Winding-Up Petition.
We are up in arms about corruption of the Judiciary, corruption in the courts etc - and let it be known that those lawyers who make this payments and do these corrupt acts are the ones that are GUILTY of corrupting the courts and the whole administration of justice.
When dealing with the police, we are always courteous at the onset but if the police's refusalor response is unreasonable - then we too get stronger in our DEMAND of our (& our client's) rights. The word is DEMAND - not beg, request mildly, etc... And when your client is in police custody - then we do not have the time to wait for the AGM or for responses of letters of complaints - for a few hours delay may be highly prejudicial to our CLIENT.
There is so much more to say about this but that can wait - the important thing is for us LAWYERS to show up in great numbers to go together with the Bar Leadership to meet the IGP - Why big numbers - to show how important we believe the issue is ....
In solidarity,
Charles Hector
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Nik Elin Zurina Bt Nik Abdul Rashid
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Posts: 216
Re:WALK THE TALK - 2006/06/06 20:00Out of the 10 paragraphs that I had written... only one line was in negative lite of the police, and yet that was the one that was instantly picked up and honed and hounded.
When the police are nice to me, I sincerely reciprocate the niceness to them. I did not have to bribe them with money at all, I was just courteous to them when dealing with them. I am not stuck up or arrogant or cari pasal or antagonistic nor do I DEMAND they give me respect. Because basically, thats called human communications. They are humans with human feelings, they are NOT your "anjings" that you can ask to FETCH or SIT or roll over. They are humans just like you and me and they are doing their work. Its attitude. Just by being nice to them has helped to ease a lot of my work and so many lawyers in Kelantan have no problems at all with the police. Is it because Kelantanese are basically not so BIADAP?
(How do you treat your Indonesian maid? I treat mine like a daughter. )
In fact I find the police very helpful in all respects. Most of the Ketua Polis Kelantan are nice to us lawyers and some are on personal basis friends. I am even pally with my Dato KP's wife now. Infact, they are all very friendly.
When I mentioned about the Dinner tables and hampers for the bowling tournaments, etc it is much the same with your contributions to KESUKMA or the Kelab Sukan Mahkamah. If you want to consider it as corruption that is entirely up to you. The hampers that I give only cost me RM50 to buy a small fan. Thats a lucky draw prize. Doesnt the BAR COUNCIL also ask for donations from our suppliers? Is that corruption?
When I said that they take their time to send me the charge sheet, it means that the charge sheet will take the normal course of time, but if I am pally with them, the charge sheet arrives almost instantly. Nevertheless, its all up to your perception. If you take only negative things, Then you will get only negative things. thats all.
In sincerityMY KAR MA RAN OVER YOUR DOG MA
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Ng Hong Chai
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Posts: 40
Re:WALK THE TALK - 2006/06/06 20:59With due respect, are we not trained to view things differently from each other, not all the time though but some of the time? If all members of an orgainsation or society were to think alike on all matters, then life would be a bit boring! Perhaps there would be no necessity of having the Courts and for that matter lawyers.
Some may agree with the President's call to show that they support him or the Bar Council in what they are trying to do in this particular instance, in a certain manner, whilst others may not agree. Those who choose to agree to support the President's call, with due respect, will have to respect those who choose not to and vice versa.
One group of people may think that the best way of addressing a wrong would be to, for example, organise a signature campaign to voice their grievances of the perceived wrong. whilst others may think that the best way would be do it in some other manner. It is all up to the individual.
To summarise, each is entitled to his/her own opinion on how to address issues. There is no absolute right or wrong.
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