Re:Police attacks on peaceful protesters must end - 2006/06/03 00:34Right on, Malik. We are all from the same kampung.
When Malaysians are abroad, we rally around each other in times of need.
Do ask the present Minister of Information whether this is correct or not.
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
There must be clear rules of engagement. As relationships stand, any police officer hovers over the average civilian. The relationship is, in the view of sociologists, structurally violent. That is why rules of engagement are important.
On that Bloody Sunday, the police were armed with shields and batons, even maybe cannisters of tear gas. The civilians were there to voice their grievance on the rise in the fuel and power prices.
I do not think that they were there to challenge the police. That would be insanity. They might as well knock their head against the wall. I don't think these Malaysians gathered on that Sunday were insane to do that.
The dynamics of such demonstrations are such that it is very difficult for any organiser to maintain peace. If only the police had stood by, it would have been a challenge for the organisers on Sunday to maintain peace.
Of course, on a speculative basis, SOME leaders may well try and use the crowd to challenge the police presence. Although merely speculative, if that happened, they would have opened themselves to identificaition.
The concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy is also applicable in this instance. For example, someone decides to stage a demonstration to prove that this is a police state. The demonstrators are there. The police are provoked by their mere presence and charge into the crowd. The prophecy is fulfilled!
In any case, the crowd that was at the KLCC on Sunday may well be slightly different from the one in Penang. The one in Penang were gathered to discuss and ask questions. The crowd at the KLCC was there to display their grievance. And their grievance is legitimate.
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Charles Hector
User Junior Forumer
Posts: 160
Re:MADPET: Police attacks on peaceful protesters must end - 2006/06/06 00:49Dear Friends,
We are angry - we are not at all happy in the way the PJ Balai treated Balasubraniam, a lawyer who went there as a lawyer for his client. Bala was arrested and detained. This is something we will no tolerate ---- and NOW we need to come out in NUMBERS to join the Bar President go see the IGP. We need over 100 lawyers at the very least.
Meet at 9-15am on 7/6/2006 (Wednesday) at the Straits Trading Building (Dagang Court entrance) and we will MARCH up to see the IGP with our President.
PASS the word around and get as MANY as possible to turn up. If you are late (court, etc...) just walk up Jalan Bukit Aman opposite the Dayabumi and meet all our fellow lawyers at the Bukit Aman.
This is a protest a action against TINDAKAN PENYALAHGUNAAN KUASA POLIS - this is the time to give the "active support" that the Bar needs of you all.
In solidarity,
Charles Hector
Send SMS- forward this e-mail and come in numbers on Wednesday Morning.
--- In TransformedBar@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Hector" <easytocall@...> wrote:
Dear Friends,
The Bar will be going to meet up with the IGP to raise issues about police maltreatment, including what happened to Balasubramaniam by the PJ Police when he was there at the police station carrying out his duty as a lawyer. The President has called for "your active support".
So make yourself free, and let us all show up in great numbers to show "active support" by gathering and going together to see the IGP.
We should all meet at about 9.00am on 7th June, as the scheduled meeting with the IGP is at:-
9.30am at Bukit Aman on 7th June 2006(Wednesday)
Friends, make yourself free and make all the necessary arrangements to come from all parts of Malaysia in this action of solidarity and a symbol of our strong protest for the misdeeds and abuses by the police.
In solidarity, Charles Hector
Meeting with the IGP [Print] [E-mail] Tuesday, 30 May 2006, 11:03 Circular No. 21/2006
Dear Members
Warm greetings!
At our last AGM in March, we had a lively discussion concerning the allegations by two of our members that they had suffered abuse at the hands of the police. It is no doubt a matter of serious concern to all of us.
After the AGM, the Bar Council has written to the IGP, to raise the several allegations of abuse cited by the said members, and to request a meeting to discuss the matters. I have also met up with the lawyers concerned, and obtained more detailed information from them about the incidents in question.
The IGP has written to inform us that he is fixing the meeting at 9.30 am on Wednesday 7 June 2006 at Bukit Aman.
Those present at the last AGM will recall that many members voiced their strong concern on this issue and gave their personal commitment to show full support for members of the Bar who encounter such problems. We hope that as many of you as possible will be able to match your commitment with your active support for the coming meeting.
Thank you
Dated 30 May 2006
Yeo Yang Poh President
--- End forwarded message ---
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Jaspita Bin Salleh
User Fresh Forumer
Posts: 37
To be or not to be .. Itulah Persoalannya - 2006/06/07 01:31Isu berkenaan tindakan 'FRU' yakni 'FEDERAL RESERVE UNIT' yang dianggotai oleh anggota-anggota Polis terhadap 'Kumpulan' yang 'berkumpul' di hadapan 'Tempat Awam' WAJIB di lihat di sudut Hukum Negara.
Adakah tindakan FRU itu berlawanan dengan Hukum Negara ? Adakah tindakan 'kumpulan' itu bertepatan dengan Hukum Negara? Adakah tuduhan-tuduhan yang dilemparkan kepada FRU adalah bertepatan dengan dasar Hukum Negara? Adakah patut kita melakukan sesuatu BANTAHAN dengan mengadakan RAPTAI UMUM tanpa menghormati Hukum Negara ? Apakah PATUT Hukum Negara diketepikan hanya semata tidak berpuashati dengan kepimpinan Negara? Apakah patut ketidakpuashatian diunjukkan melalui RAPTAI UMUM semata?
Daripada RAPTAI UMUM LEBIH BAIK PILIHAN RAYA UMUM
Buat apa melalukan tindakan sia-sia yang hanya mengundang malang. Tidak salah menyalahkan bagi mereka yang menjadikan diri mereka sebagai mangsa tetapi adalah salah bagi menyelahkan mereka yang menjadi mangsa keadaan iaitu FRU.
Terima Kasih.
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Shanmuga Kanesalingam
User Junior Forumer
Posts: 87
Handy Dandy .. Which is the victim? - 2006/06/07 16:12Kesian "mangsa-mangsa keadaan" (iaitu anggota FRU): At least 4 combat trained, body armoured FRU personnel with thick clubs have to kick a man armed with nothing but a book while he is down! (Gambar bagaimana mangsa sedang menderita itu dapat dilihat di http://www.jeffooi.com/2006/05/minimal_force.php Setelah melihat gambar, siapa mangsa sebenar mungkin lebih jelas.)
Jaspita, anda memetik Hamlet di dalam tajuk anda. Mungkin soalan King Lear juga perlu diingati di dalam debat ini:- “A man may see how this world goes with no eyes. Look with thine ears: see how yond justice rails upon yond simple thief. Hark, in thine ear: change places; and, handy-dandy, which is the justice, which is the thief?” (King Lear, Act IV, Sc. VI)
Soalan-soalan anda telah saya kumpulkan di bawah tiga bahagian, dan menjawabnya seperti berikut dengan pandangan saya:-
1. Adakah tindakan FRU itu berlawanan dengan Hukum Negara ? 3. Adakah tuduhan-tuduhan yang dilemparkan kepada FRU adalah bertepatan dengan dasar Hukum Negara?
Jawapan saya: Ya. 7 orang polis tidak boleh memukul bertubi-tubi seorang rakyat jelata yang tidak bersenjata. Undang-undang negara ini membenarkan rakyat memberi kritikan terhadap anggota kerajaan.
2. Adakah tindakan 'kumpulan' itu bertepatan dengan Hukum Negara? 4. Adakah patut kita melakukan sesuatu BANTAHAN dengan mengadakan RAPTAI UMUM tanpa menghormati Hukum Negara ? 5. Apakah PATUT Hukum Negara diketepikan hanya semata tidak berpuashati dengan kepimpinan Negara?
Jawapan saya: Mereka berkumpul tanpa permit jadi mereka mengingkari undang-undang yang menghendaki permit polis diperolehi. Tetapi, undang-undang yang menghendaki permit polis itu telah dikritik oleh SUHAKAM, oleh Suruhanjaya Diraja mengenai Polis, oleh Majlis Peguam dan hampir kesemua NGO yang bekerja keras untuk memajukan hak-hak asasi kami semua. Di Amerika Syarikat dalam tahun 60an, rakyat Amerika berbangsa Afrika telah dengan sengaja mengingkari pelbagai undang-undang berunsur diskriminasi. Misalannya, Rosa Parks telah mengingkari undang-undang yang berkata orang kulit hitam tidak boleh duduk di kerusi orang putih di dalam bas ketika beliau enggan berpindah kerusi di dalam bas yang dinaikinya! Tindakan beliau nampaknya mengingkari undang-undang tetapi undang-undang itu telah diisytiharkan tidak mengikut perlembagaan oleh Mahkamah Agung Amerika Syarikat. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks)
6. Apakah patut ketidakpuashatian diunjukkan melalui RAPTAI UMUM semata?
Jawapan saya: Adakah ia patut? Mengikut undang-undang, tentunya ya. Lagipun, raptai ini diadakan di hadapan ibu pejabat gemilang syarikat petroleum negara (yang dimiliki sepenuhnya kerajaan) dan adalah protes mengenai kenaikan harga petrol - jadi tempat yang tepat-tepat bersesuaian dengan isu. Dan, semua orang bertindak dengan aman sehinggalah FRU ("mangsa keadaan" tersebut yang sebenarnya nampaknya pencipta keadaan) mula membuat kacau.
Ada yang kata bukannya budaya orang Malaysia untuk berdemonstrasi di tempat awam. Saya pertikai dakwaan ini dan memberi contoh demonstrasi terhadap Malayan Union (Lihat gambar di http://www.nst.com.my/Misc/RTN/Pix/RFSRW_4605/big).
Ada yang kata tunggu pilihanraya umum. Tetapi pilihanraya hanya bertujuan memilih kerajaan sekali dalam 5 tahun. Bagaimana dengan polisi dan isu semasa? Saya juga mungkin penyokong kerjaan dan akan mengundi untuk parti kerajaan tetapi masih tidak bersetuju dengan satu (ataupun dua atau tiga ) daripada polisi mereka. Bukankah saya berhak untuk memberi kritikan terhadap polisi kerajaan dari masa ke semasa?
Pihak FRU telah mengambil undang-undang ke dalam tangan mereka sendiri dan telah bertindak dengan terlalu kasar terhadap rakyat jelata yang tidak bersenjata. Anggota FRU tersebut sepatutnya menerima hukuman setimpal untuk penyalahgunaan kuasa mereka.
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N. Surendran a/l K. Nagarajan
Visitor
To BEAT or not to BEAT... - 2006/06/07 21:44In her note entitled "To be or not to be...", Jaspita Salleh pronounces that the FRU were "mangsa keadaan"and that the protesters at KLCC on 8.5.06 disrespected " Hukum Negara".
Having viewed the videos taken of the event, I propose to take a closer look at these victimized members of the FRU, who were driven by fate and circumstance to break the heads of wicked protesters heavily armed with banners, placards and a loud-hailer. I shall emphasize on the sad situation of the most victimized members of the FRU, such as:
a) The victimized FRU man who hit the backs of peacefully dispersing protesters with his baton;
b) Several courageous but victimized FRU men who beat, kicked and stepped upon a protester lying on the ground, whilst his two young daughters screamed in terror;
c) Several FRU men, also victimized, who defended public order by repeatedly beating a man around the head and back with their shields and batons causing blood in copious amounts to drench his face and shirt. All this happened while the protester was bent over his 10 year old son in an attempt to protect him from the FRU batons. Not understanding that his parent was being bludgeoned for the sake of law and order, the child later described the police as "orang jahat";
d) Most tragic was the FRU man who found it necessary to bloody the butt-end of his tear-gas gun on the head of a protester. ( There is an unconfirmed report that the miscreant was armed with a small poster with some words on it.)
One can imagine how aggravated these peace officers must have felt faced by unarmed protesters who did not retaliate despite being shot at with a water-cannon, beaten with batons and chased around by men with helmets and shields when they were already peacefully dispersing.
I will go further than Jaspita Salleh in my admiration for these magnificent baton-wielders - I demand that they forthwith be awarded the Nation's highest medal for Duty, Courage and Compassion.
N.Surendran
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Jaspita Bin Salleh
Visitor
Re:To BEAT or not to BEAT... - 2006/06/08 00:19In reply to his/her good intentions to my 'To Be or Not To be " In deepest symphaty to the demise of Hukum Negara and to the rise of the Hukum-Hukuman and to the tears and cheers of 'Peceaful Citizens' and 'Keeper of the Peace' I am here to reply as follows:-
In her note entitled "To be or not to be...", Jaspita Salleh pronounces that the FRU were "mangsa keadaan"and that the protesters at KLCC on 8.5.06 disrespected " Hukum Negara". Firstly, one must ascertain truth. If one cannot ascertain truth then the truth deludes and dilutes the mind. Like in recognising one's gender and in differentiate the bin and the binti. When the Hukum Negara is longer be abide then the Negara is Terhukum when the Negara Terhukum it is the people who are suffering, the people like you, me and the those 'Peaceful Protesters' but maybe them can find another Negara which its Hukum is thought to be better than ours... Who knows, right ?
Having viewed the videos taken of the event, I propose to take a closer look at these victimized members of the FRU, who were driven by fate and circumstance to break the heads of wicked protesters heavily armed with banners, placards and a loud-hailer. I shall emphasize on the sad situation of the most victimized members of the FRU, such as: Yes, the 'Peaceful Protestors' have the time to stage their camera video at the right angle take. Hmmm... Isn't it the 'Thing' is staged ? If not why suddenly a camera is recording it all ? Mangsa Keadaan right ? Or maybe a camera is suddenly appears from the thin air to be the 'Speaking witness' or is it that something pre-meditated ? Mens Rea actus Reus ? The Hukum Negara that is being deny?
a) The victimized FRU man who hit the backs of peacefully dispersing protesters with his baton; A picture says a thousand words but which words? The truth or the eyes are playing tricks on the mind ? A magic perhaps. Do the picture show what happen before that? I guess not, HEY IT IS BEING PROFESSIONALLY EDITED !
b) Several courageous but victimized FRU men who beat, kicked and stepped upon a protester lying on the ground, whilst his two young daughters screamed in terror; Those courageous victimized FRU are indeed courageous and victimized, why? Are they enjoying doing it ? Or are they were forced by Keadaan that is created by the 'lying' protester ? Think again. This time see beyond the lying protester.
c) Several FRU men, also victimized, who defended public order by repeatedly beating a man around the head and back with their shields and batons causing blood in copious amounts to drench his face and shirt. All this happened while the protester was bent over his 10 year old son in an attempt to protect him from the FRU batons. Not understanding that his parent was being bludgeoned for the sake of law and order, the child later described the police as "orang jahat"; Of course, exactly that the word of uttered by the child. But, if the father was not a participant then perhaps the father was not beaten and the Police won't be 'orang jahat'.
d) Most tragic was the FRU man who found it necessary to bloody the butt-end of his tear-gas gun on the head of a protester. ( There is an unconfirmed report that the miscreant was armed with a small poster with some words on it.) But the most UNFORTUNATE is that THE POLICE WOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THAT IF the protester disperse early before the arrival of the Police. But he has chosen to wait.
One can imagine how aggravated these peace officers must have felt faced by unarmed protesters who did not retaliate despite being shot at with a water-cannon, beaten with batons and chased around by men with helmets and shields when they were already peacefully dispersing. Too late. They wanted it to happen that way. If not WHY THERE IS A STANDBY VIDEO CAMERA?
I will go further than Jaspita Salleh in my admiration for these magnificent baton-wielders - I demand that they forthwith be awarded the Nation's highest medal for Duty, Courage and Compassion. They deserve more than that N.Surendran; There are policemen who died i the line of duty because they were shot by criminals; they have to sacrifice lot of things in life to maintain law and order; they have to live and do in what they believe to protect the law and to maintain order. If you, N Surendran changes lives with one of them , I am sure that you understand. But being a lawyer and not policeman , it is easy to point fingers from a standby video. Do you really think that they want to do it and do it in a happy mood ? Do they that evil as potray by the standby video ?
Take this mathematical solution :
RIOT + DISRESPECT OF HUKUM NEGARA + ENFORCING LAW AND ORDER = THAT INCIDENT.
IF ONLY THE PROPAGATORS OF THE DEMONSTRATION HAVE A SLIGHT HUMNITARIAN FEELINGS IN THEM; SURELY THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ADVICE AND PROPAGATE THE DEMONSTRATION AND LET THOSE INNOCENTS BE MANIPULATED BY THEM IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THEIR OWN PERSONAL INTEREST AND GOALS.
THE POLICE HAVE TO DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO. DO YOU WANT OUR PEOPLE TO BECOME STREET DEMONSTRATORS ?
Where is the dignity in doing that ? where are the benefits ? The benefits are reaped by those who manipulate , manipulators who do not care what happen to you or me or others except their own stomach. with that I am really symphatetic towards the FRU who were VICTIMISED by THESE MANIPULATORS WHO WALK AMONGST US.
THE BOLD LETTERS ARE USED TO STRESS THE OPINION, NOTHING ELSE IS INTENDED.
REMEMBER , N SURENDREN, THERE ARE ELEMENTS THAT ARE INSTRUMENTAL TOOLS BY THESE MANIPULATORS. YOU MAY NOT SEE IT NOW, BUT WHEN WE REALISED IT, PLEASE READ BACK MY POSTINGS AT THAT TIME.
LOVE OUR COUNTRY. RESPECT THE POLICE. RESPECT THE LAW. AS MALAYSIANS WE ARE MUCH BETTER IN INTELLECT TO VOICE UP OUR OPINION RATHER THAN BOTHERING THE POLICE FORCE.
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Dara Waheda Mohd Rufin
User Junior Forumer
Posts: 116
Re:To BEAT or not to BEAT... - 2006/06/08 15:08label "jahat" pada polis sudah menjadi sangat biasa bagi rakyat kita tanpa memikirkan dengan meluas skop dan tugas polis sebenarnya lebih besar dari apa yang dapat dilihat. jika kita masih merasakan bahawa polis membawa masalah besar dalam masyarakat jd mengapa kita perlukan institusi itu...
meluahkan perasaan melalui pungutan suara dan rapat umum adalah satu hak asasi bagi setiap warganegara Malaysia tapi tertakluk kepada peruntukan undang-undang yang menyatakan keperluan permit. mengapa kita perlu ada undang-undang jika kita tak mahu mematuhi. itu satu hal.
kedua, mengapa perlu mengheret anak-anak kecil ke rapat-rapat umum jika kita sudah tahu kesudahan yang berat bagi satu-satu perhimpunan yang tidak sah. adakah dengan membawa anak-anak kecil bersama boleh mengelakkan diri dari undang-undang yang telah jelas termaktub. kita sudah maklum apakah fungsi FRU dan mana-mana pasukan polis simpanan di mana-mana negara yang biasanya digunakan apabila keadaan menjadi tidak terkawal. "sebutir bom yang digugurkan dari udara oleh pesawat pejuang tidak mengenal mangsa." jika seorang bapa atau ibu yang baik yang sudah melihat keadaan menjadi kacau bilau, mereka sudah tentu dapat menjangkakan keadaan yang buruk akan menimpa anak mereka jika mereka masih berada di tempat berkenaan. apabila arahan bersurai telah dikeluarkan ibu atau bapa yang baik akan bawa keluar anak-anak mereka dengan segera (itupun jika mereka prihatin tentang keselamatan anak mereka lebih daripada memikirkan ego masing-masing)..
ketiga, mengapa perlu berdemonstrasi jika kita tahu kesudahannya adalah kemusnahan? walau hanya tong-tong sampah yang rosak tapi kita pasti tahu satu tong sampah yang jika dibeli oleh rakyat biasa harganya cuma RM25 akan jadi RM50 jika dibeli oleh pihak berkuasa (tidak tahu poket mana bakinya masuk) jadi kenapa mesti kita memberi kemudahan kekayaan segera kepada pihak-pihak yang menangguk di air yang keruh.
keempat, polis masih manusia biasa yang sifat sabar, ego dan tercabar. saya pernah melalui kawasan demonstrasi di mana polis telah meminta orang ramai bersurai tetapi di balas dengan perkataan kesat seperti "anjing kerajaan", "pergi mampus", "polis bodoh" dan sebagainya. bayangkan jika perkataan-perkataan itu dijeritkan pada anda, sampai tahap mana kesabaran itu boleh bertahan. mereka hanya menjalankan tugas tetapi dibalas pula dengan kata2 kesat sedemikian.
saya tidak mengatakan saya menyebelahi mana-mana pihak tetapi kedua-dua pihak ada kesilapannya dan jika api tidak dimulakan, kertas tak akan terbakar. ada cara yang lebih baik untuk kita membuat bantahan dan jika undian terbuka dilakukan saya pasti ramai yang tidak setuju cara polis mengendalikan situasi tersebut dan ramai juga yang setuju situasi tersebut tidak sepatutnya dimulakan oleh pihak-pihak tersebut._________________ LiFe Is JuSt A ShOrT JoUrNeY....
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