Malaysian Bar members urged to rise up to save the judiciary

It's still crap and I am entitled to my opinion

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:50:20 +0100

Title & Author Unknown On Monday, Muthu didn't have his homework and when the teacher asked him why, He said, "Because a monster ripped it up, after I told him a lie." "You know monsters don't exist, and if you don't turn in your homework, no recess you will get." On Tuesday, Muthu had a stomachache and when the teacher asked him why? He said, "A monster took away my dinner, even my cherry pie." "Muthu, I've told you once before, monsters are not real. You'll have to wait till lunchtime before you get a meal." On Wednesday, Muthu had a bandage, which covered his right eye. When the teacher asked him how it happened, this was his reply: "A monster was running after me when I ran into the door:" "Muthu please," the teacher said, "I don't want to hear any more." On Thursday, Muthu refused to sit down, and when the teacher asked him why? Muthu said, "A monster whipped my bottom, because I started to cry." "Muthu," said the teacher, "this is getting out of hand, and if you continue with these stories, in the corner you will stand." "On Friday, Muthu didn't come to school, and when the teacher found out why, she said a little prayer to God in hopes Muthu would survive. For a monster had beaten Muthu and threatened him with a knife. Now Muthu lay in a hospital bed, fighting for his life. So listen and please remember, that monsters are for real. Listen closely to kids stories, A wounded heart you may heal!!!!! We simply refuse to listen to the voices of children because we are adults and we have bigger problems to deal with than a child's. We fight for the greater good. We are intelligent species so we can never be wrong. Rubbish- to a woman who says that it is an ego issue!!! The proof to this would be the judicial crisis , which occurred some 20 years ago and the current tapes made roughly 5 years ago and we are not concerned about a child abuse (a recent case that happened 5 days ago) as much as we are concerned about the Lingam tapes because we are fighting for the greater good...(yawn) I am only concerned of the status of pedophiles in Malaysia and there should be better laws. We should register sexual offenders and keep a tab on their movements, something similar to the Megan's Law in America.If they move to a new neighbourhood, the residents should be inform of a sexual predator's existence among them. A child's safety is more important than a mistaken case of pedophiles. On the other hand, good luck to your rally! I am so sure the PM himself will be receiving your petition personally and the whole judiciary system would be revamped over night based on your petitions. I just hope this will not be another futile attempt by the Bar to fight the Bench as opposed to healing and ratifying the abuse and sexual offences of children in Malaysia (which is urgently required). Again Good Luck! sincerely, Selva Rani Thiyagarajan - Selva Rani Thiyagarajan

TWO CASES ON PAEDOPHILIA

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:34:15 +0100

My dear Selva Rani and Manjeet Singh Let us now hope that our Selva Rani will review his position and not confuse the dead wood for the living trees. Paedophiles do exist. It is a sickness of the mind. Let me tell you an occasion when I was given the pillar-to-post treatment. I had a 65-year-old American client, since demised, who had American and British passports. He was living in Penang. He was arrested by our Malaysian Police at the behest of Interpol on suspicion of using a false passport. I presented myself at the police station, and then sought the cooperation of the British High Commission in Kuala Lumpur to verify the passport. It was after 5pm but a top officer of the British High Commission cooperated by verifying by fax that the passport as a true and lawful document. I then rushed to the police station and presented the fax to our good DSP. Guess what? The DSP now says that my client has been held because of American reports that he was a paedophile. Since the effect of this new charge meant that my efforts to get bail for my client had been blunted, I got in touch immediately with the Penang-based British Consul. The next day, a Saturday, I went to the police station again - this time with the British Consul. He asked to use the telephone and asked the American at the other end of the line whether he wanted a "diplomatic incident". He then told the American in no uncertain terms that "documents must be produced within 24 hours if a British citizen is to be placed in continued remand." This British challenge resulted in my client being freed. What that experience highlighted to me was the consistent British regard for (1) liberty of any person and (2) due process. NOTE: When I asked my British-American client about the charge for paedophilia, he told me that he had been set up. It was a tragic story. Anyway, he died soon afterwards. May the Lord grant him eternal rest. I have another story about paedophilia in New Zealand. It involved Tim, a family friend in his mid thirties. Tim was accused by the Youth Affairs Ministry and the police of sexually molesting his own son, then his only child. His aged dad and mum, Dave and Ruth who were in their seveenties, drove a hundred miles to see me. I protested that I was only a law student and they should see a lawyer. Anyway, Dave and Ruth said that their confidence in me and their son's case was reflected by their driving a hundred miles or more to see me. I reluctantly got the facts of the case and then wrote throughout the night, with the dad at my side. Not satisfied, I told my Dave that I wanted to consult my professors of law in the university. However, Dave told me he was happy with what I had done and to proceed. I advised caution. For your information, I got letters of apology from the police and the Police Minister. Tim is still living in New Zealand, while Dave and Ruth have passed away. I took the hundred-mile trip to visit their graves when I last went to New Zealand. NOTE: For obvious reasons of confidentiality, names have been changed to Stephen Tan Ban Cheng - Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Pedophilia, old lawyers and judges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:40:23 +0100

Hi Selva Rani Stephen hasn't tried to convince you but let me try.... You say you 'don't care about some old lawyer and judge....' I agree 100% with you - I too do not care for this old lawyer and judge and wish that all this had never happened. But it has and in front of our face and with impunity and should you elect to do nothing and turn your back on it because the hunt for pedophiles means more to you then that is your call. I, like you, detest abuse of children. But unfortunately child abuse is endemic the world over. But in this 'old lawyer and judge' kerfuffle we are dealing with corruption of the soul of the nation. And this corruption will affect your pedophile hunt too. For what is worth we have some of the harshest penal laws in the world - we whip, we hang, we have draconian sentences, we have the lot. Ask any lawyer practising at the Criminal Bar. Compare how pedophiles are sentenced in the West. Do you really think that a special Malaysian pedophile act will cure that rot. And remember criminals, pedophiles included, get acquitted all over the world because of breakdowns in the system - be it for lack of proof, inadequate investigations, sheer incompetency or just plain, simple corruption. After all you have to first catch the pedophile and then CONVICT him - and there is many a slip between cup and lip. And I am sure you are not suggesting that we castrate them after arrest without trial. Unfortunately we have the tools to put most things right but strangely we seem to be lacking in moral fibre to use those tools. And use them correctly and for the betterment of the greater good of all and the small world that envelopes each of us and in which we cocoon our children. That is the dilemma facing us with the revelations contained in that video clip and the stuttering, stammering response of the powers-to-be to it. Think about it - sort out that 'old lawyer and judge' problem and all that it represents and who knows you may actually have taken your pedophile eradication programme a long way forward. On second thoughts, castration may help, if it does really take away all lascivious thoughts. Does it? Manjeet Singh Dhillon - Manjeet Singh Dhillon

The Difference between battles and War

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 04:49:31 +0100

Just to share my thoughts "First they came..." Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. Dear Selva Rani, I agree with Stephen on this issue. There are many issues that plague this nation, and bravo to you for taking a strong stance on Child Protection and pedophiles. However there are some issues that affect this nation that can NEVER nor WILL IT be redress by the courts of the day, nor may it be investigated in an impartial manner by the authorities of the day. Sadly to say, that it is these issues that derogate and are dissolving the very definition of Democracy and the Rule of Law. Be it the Statements calling for the abolition of the Common law, the 1988 saga or even the latest video scandal, in my view it is a derogation of the notion of judicial restraint and Separation of Powers. If we, who were trained to understand and cherish these basic concepts fail to stand up and call for the protection of these concepts when it is threaten, then surely this nation is going to the Dogs. Whose else is going to call for the its protection, the man on the street, who has not benefited from legal training. Humbly Vicknaraj Thanarajah - Vicknaraj Thanarajah

COUNT HAIRS...

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 00:49:30 +0100

COUNT HAIRS WHILE WE GRAPPLE WITH THE NATURE OF THE BEAST My dear Selva Rani While I understand and support your stand against paedophiles, please feel free to continue counting the hairs on the animal while the majority of us grapple with the nature of the beast. I disagree totally with your stand, however, on the 1988 judicial crisis: it cannot simply be dismissed as a battle of the egos. However, if that is your sincere view, I will still respect that although I would be glad if you can review the same. Stephen Tan Ban Cheng - Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Sabah and Sarawak lawyers? Ask them...

Sun, 23 Sep 2007 00:02:05 +0100

Dear MBW, They say they use the Sarawak or Sabah Land Codes, not the National Land Code, so Ardorna v Boonsum Boonyanit, a legacy of CJ Eusoff Chin, a good chum of Lingam, does not apply? Therefore they have nothing to say? The 17 year old boy from Sabah who did not have his IC with him and was locked up in prison for months - Mr V Sithambaram of the Criminal Law Committee of the Bar Council had to step in and got him released. The poor boy would still be in there if not for the Bar Council but again it happened in West Malaysia so it is the Bar Council's jurisdiction isn't it?. What did they say about the 1988 Malaysian Constitutional Crisis which ended with the suspension and the eventual removal of Lord President, Tun Salleh Abbas and Supreme Court Judges, Tan Sri Wan Suleiman and Datuk George Seah - the three innocent victims? Datuk George Seah suffered a severe stroke and lost his speech and ability to write. Read this sites: http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/content/view/4178/2/ http://www.klbar.org.my/dir/MP/GeorgeSeah_report.pdf Datuk George Seah is Sarawakian. Has the Sarawak Law Association tried to vindicate Datuk George Seah all these years or even paid a visit to him like the KL Bar? What about the 1993 Malaysian Constitutional Crisis which inolved the limitation of monarchs' power in Malaysia by TDM? What about the sacking and trial of the then Deputy PM Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim in 1998? Sabah is ranked 1st and Sarawak is ranked 4th in Malaysia in the number of handcore poor even though these 2 states have such rich natural resources but have they tried to analyse why it is so? Unlike Singapore, the 2 states refused to open up. Singapore has reached 1st world and Sabah and Sarawak is 10 to 15 years behind West Malaysia even. The Bar Council was involved with flood relief efforts in Johore and Ms Ambiga, Bar Council Chairman speaks for the Orang Asli. The Penans in Sarawak can only wish they have more lawyers with moral courage. With regard to your present question, they will say Sabah and Sarawak lawyers don't read this website even if they do. It is better you put it in writing to them or in the newspapers. See what they will say. JT Lim - JT Lim (via email)

All this is crap

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:49:54 +0100

I really don't care about some old lawyer and judge issue as this is an ego issue between the bar and the bench- a never ending story of who's better?. There was a child molested and killed recently and there is very little coverage by the Malaysian Bar on this. There is inadequate child protection in this country. We need to reform the law and protect children better. There should be harsher laws enforced in this country against all pedophiles. I would have been so proud of the Bar had this rally been to protect children's right. sincerely Selva Rani Thiyagarajan - Selva Rani Thiyagarajan

BACKING FOR SABAH AND SARAWAK E.G.M.s CALL

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:58:30 +0100

I endorse the call made by the MBW that the Sabah and Sarawak Bars should hold similar EGMs on the same day. This is to show our collective sense of deep repugnance and deep outrage at what is occurring. For far too long now, those in power have shown their disrespect and contempt for Malaysian voters who put them in power to serve we Malaysians. These irresponsible politicians do not seem to be able to reflect the respect that had been shown consistently by the first three Prime Ministers of Malaysia. Stephen Tan Ban Cheng - Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Sabah and Sarawak Bars should do likewise

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:51:34 +0100

If members of the Sabah and Sarawak Bars are reading this, I hope the two State Bars will also hold a similar EGM on the same day! MBW - MBW

I'll be there

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:06:22 +0100

Will the CJ direct all courts to grant adjournment of court cases on Sept 26 if so requested by lawyers intending to take part in the march from the Palace of Justice to PM's Office? I will be there in Putrajaya, making it my first trip to the Palace of Justice. Lim Sey Wee - Lim Sey Wee

Members of the Bar

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:24:22 +0100

Time for us to act decisively to save our Judiciary and our country! Ravindra P. Nanukuttan - Ravindra P. Nanukuttan