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If the above is true, I feel strongly that the Bar Council should do something about it.

Taking into account that it's human nature to always think that the old days are better, but lawyers that attend court should at least have basic knowledge of court etiquette.

A refresher for all lawyers might be a good idea. My personal view merely.

Tan Choon Heong

Court attire and etiquette ought to be learnt at Law Schools.

During the final year of studies, during mootings, the suitably attired undergraduates had experienced how to appear in court, and how to address the judge/judges.

If lawyers are lax/relaxed when attending court, the necessary reprimand by the observant judge on a 'personal to holder' basis should be sufficient to serve as a good lesson to the lawyer concerned - in order to avoid any future repetition.

Tan Peek Guat

Besides court attire, another thing is about filing and documentation of court papers, which is peculiar to different courts.

How I wish the High Court in Malaya in different states can come up with guidelines on certain technical aspects of filing of papers, fees, procedures, etc. This is necessary because courts in different places may differ in their practice and habits which the new and young lawyers might not be familiar with.

Ding Chu Teck

It is indeed sad and hard to believe that a member of the Bar did not have such basic knowledge of court attire for she ought to have at least learnt about it when she appeared before the High Court at the hearing of her petition for admission to the Bar.

Pupils reading in chambers should take the initiative to learn and be pro-active in acquiring as much knowledge as possible in all aspects of the profession during their pupillage. From my experience many senior members are kind to share and impart their knowledge. All we need to do is ask.

Chong Siew Ean

You can't fault the judge for making these comments. Being properly attired is one of the fundamental requirements if you wish to appear before the courts. No doubt, the answer given by Ms Tan made things worse.

What piqued my interest was the statement whether the BC should take an active role in educating lawyers on what to wear? I wish to juxtapose this statement with what the BC has achieved in the past 3-4 years.

No doubt the BC has gathered so much goodwill for its involvment in so many issues ranging from human rights, the reform of the judiciary and ensuring that the rule of law is upheld.

All of this is very nice but its really looking outwards rather than inwards. What about the lawyer's rights? Who really looks after us? Do we look after ourselves individually? What then is the role of the BC? How do we prevent another incident like this? Do we leave this in the hand of the individual firm?

Perception is very important and the last thing the BC needs is that it is more concerned with the welfare of the external parties rather than its own.

Maybe its time the BC took a step back and reassessed itself. Perhaps the BC can dedicate part of its enthusiasm when doing all the wonderful work towards ensuring that the welfare of lawyers are not placed in the backburner.

The point I wish to make is that a balance must be drawn. A balance between seeking out to champion many causes and that of us, the lawyers.

Dipendra A/L Harshad Rai

I wonder if the other lawyers in Court alerted our junior lawyer to the fact that she was not properly attired.

I'm sure they would've noticed it given the fact that she was not even wearing a bib.

Perhaps the unfortunate incident could've been prevented..

Nicholas Netto

As much as I agree with Nicholas, I also wonder if the lady did not even notice she was the odd one out.

Most lawyers in the court usually would have already been properly attired with robes, and some of them would be quickly robing themselves when the court was about to start ... It's really not that difficult even for a public in the gallery to notice this "chaos" seconds before the court starts though ...

Joey Ngu Yi Hui

I don't see how the fault lies with everybody else except for her.

She has been called to the bar, hasn't she? I "assume" she was robed at her call. So her answer that she did not know is simply unacceptable.

I agree with Joey, a person with the academic qualifications to be admitted to the bar would have realised something was amiss the moment everyone started robing themselves before Court was in motion.

Benjamin Sathyanandam

This is a variation of my experience in Christchurch, New Zealand.

I appeared as a 48-year-old rookie lawyer before the Judge in the High Court. When my matter was called, I stood up and stated my name and who I was representing. The Judge said he could not "hear counsel." Then as I repeated my name, the Judge said he could not "see counsel."

I was at a loss, thinking all thoughts, including my Malaysian pronunciation. I even thought that the Judge was having some kind of a seizure. In sheer distress, I repeated exclaimed, "Your Honour, I am here! I am standing in front of you!" only to hear the Judge adjourning the proceedings.

I never knew what the matter was, until the secretary came to me and whispered that the Judge wanted to see me in his Chamber. I promptly proceeded to the Chamber, carefully knocking the door and then going in after permission was given.

"Good morning, Judge," I greeted His Honour, "what can I do for you?" Then came his question, "Mr Ten (that is how they pronounce "Tan"), why are you in brown shoes?"

I then looked down and indeed my shoes were brown. I explained to him that in my hurry to dash to the Court from home, I must have worn the wrong pair of shoes. Cheekily, I added that I have a white pair of shoes as well.

The Judge took my explanation in stride and distinctly told me that he knew who I was and would allow me to address the Court in my brown shoes this once and no more. I was to be more careful the next time. "Judge, thank you," I said. Then we had a very casual chat.

When the Court resumed its sitting, I got the Order I wanted and we became very good friends ... even until now. Whenever I am back in New Zealand, I pay him a courtesy call.

Looking back at the above "baptism of fire," so to speak, the good Kiwi Judge never made my unintended mischief - if you want to call it that - a media event.

In fact, he took the opportunity of that slip to instil in me the traditional fraternity that exists between the Bench and the Bar.

I thoroughly enjoyed that morning although when I went to the Bar later, "the Malaysian lawyer" was the talk of the legal fraternity. Along with some fellow lawyers, including a lawyer son of a Court of Appeal Judge, we even drank a few toasts to that.

That was also the event that triggered the talk about "the wild man of Borneo." And that is another story.

For now, this young girl has undergone the "baptism of fire." I guess she will be all the better for that experience.

Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Has it occurred to anyone that the NST report may be inaccurate and unreflective of the actual incident?

There is no inkling of doubt that most of us junior lawyers are desultory. We made mistakes, we learnt and we stood up again, pushing ourselves through the rich tapestry of the legal practice. Before everyone jumps and points finger to the lawyer, master and law firm mentioned in the article, think and reflect. Have you not contravened any basic rules as a lawyer? Whilst we thank our lucky stars that our breach of the basic rule is not made known to the public and complete with media coverage, like it or not, we HAVE committed a breach, no matter how minute.

Let not the newspaper article and ‘wide coverage’ of this dressing issue etiolate the junior lawyers. It is my sincere hope that everyone learns from this court mis-etiquette and moves on, instead of squandering on the issue and whether Ms. Tan is inadequately equipped with the basic knowledge of court attire as though no other important matters deserve our attention.

Look at the big picture. Read the NST report with a pinch of salt.

Yong Wan Shin

This is the REASON why I always wear a bib in the Courts

Kiang Jau Sang

As much as I would like to abide by the rules and regulations , but sometime I really wish to query why do some judges like to conduct in-chamber matters in the open court and then make public remarks to degrade the legal profession.

Are judges conducting in-chamber matters in open court contributes to the "confussion" as lawyers will not be in open Court attire for their in-chamber matter? I mean, what do we call in chamber matter that is heard in open court? Open chamber case?

Enlighten me please, can a lawyer appear in lower court wearing bib but not robe and tie?

For a start, I do notice that while new lawyers were robed, a lot of lawyers (whether senior or otherwise) who are not wearing open court attire sat there waiting for their cases to be called during the whole process of "called to the bar".

If respect are to be restored and practise, there is an urgent need to restore the integrity of the judiciary and let there be courtesy between the lawyers and judges without regards to seniority.

Tan Chun Ming

The barrister's 'jabot' is called "bands". When worn by ladies over their blouses without collars, they are called "collarettes". Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_dress

Bibs, the last time I checked, are worn by babies.

Andrew Teh Leng Guan

I wrote earlier recounting my "baptism of fire" in New Zealand that "the good Kiwi Judge never made my unintended mischief - if you want to call it that - a media event."

That is the point. The good Judge made his point and it was taken very gladly. But, mark you, he never turned it into a media event.

Can I call this the rightful application of the doctrine of proportionality?

So many things are wrong with our judiciary and most of us, including this writer, know only some of it.

These are the urgent problems that cry for immediate resolution, not a young lady lawyer who appeared without a collarette, surely?

Look at it another way. We have 13,000 lawyers in practice in West Malaysia. One young one failed, admittedly, on a very basic thing such as court attire. So, do we go to town with that story?

Sensational, I know. But is that what journalism in Malaysia has descended to? Where is the responsible journalism I talked about?
Under the spreading chestnut tree which is still not cut down for the newsprint? What a waste of ink and other resources!

Stephen Tan Ban Cheng

Purpose. What is the purpose of making it mandatory for lawyers to wear these bibs? Is it because we could be frothing at the mouth when we speak or to prevent us from salivating too much as we present our cases? Either way, I wouldn't think it would be suitable for us to hold our bibs and wipe the froth or saliva.

I should think that we do away with something so irrelevant and does not have any purpose but merely to follow the ideals set by JUDGES of other countries.

I should think that we maintain the robes as it can get quite chilly in the courts. But bibs? Lets do away with it. Besides, Lady lawyers without bibs would be able to show off more cleavage and win their cases when judges get distracted from their presentation.

Nik Elin Zurina Nik Abdul Rashid

"Besides, Lady lawyers without bibs would be able to show off more cleavage and win their cases when judges get distracted from their presentation."

Surely, if it was a guy who posted that comment, the collective wrath and scorn of the female race would furiously descend on the said chap, probably him in the process..

But since it's dear Nik Elin who posted it, i suppose it's just, well, funny...

Nicholas Netto

...probably decapitating him in the process..

Nicholas Netto

I believe the majority of young lawyers in the town would strongly support the contentions of Miss Yong Wan Shin, at least, I do. My mother always reminds me that “don’t judge a book by its cover” and I feel that the report may not reveal the real incident which happened in the court room. It could be grossly unjust for us to make a conclusion in this matter too early or even make criticisms against the young lady.

Everybody makes mistakes and everybody deserves a chance to learn from mistakes. The young lady had gone through a miserable experience which she could hardly forget in her life. I strongly believe that junior lawyers are like offspring in this profession, all of us need guidance and support from senior lawyers in the process of growing, instead of numerous criticisms after we made a mistake.

Life is a balance between ugly and pretty, soft and hard, sweet and sour. And right now we need to tilt things toward the more attractive end of the spectrum in this profession, instead of fading the profession by criticizing the young lady.

Goh Kean Pang

For better or worse, this incident seems to have served its purpose in "enlightening" the current batch of pupils or new lawyers (or for lawyers to give more detailed instructions to their pupils/charges!) on the appropriate Court etiquette, judging by the buzz around town.

However, I do question the need for the newspaper to name the poor soul and the firm she's with. That really was unnecessary...

Justin Chin E-Loong

I echo Andrew Teh's comments.. its a Band not Bib. In the medieval days, it was only worn by priests. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was once told that the band represent the 2 tablets of the ten commanments. For your general information, we are also known as the "priest of the blue bag".

Darren Teo Sze Hoong

In New South Wales, the Chief Justice issued the policy of Court Attire and it is very thorough. Just to share with you all. Maybe our Chief Justice may consider to put in such a policy.;-)
http://www.nswbar.asn.au/docs/...ttire.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_dress, and i quote:

"While it is not unknown for female barristers to wear a blouse with separate bands much like male colleagues, more commonly they would wear a starched white all-in-one collarette or bib covering their neckline that approximates in looks to a tall Mandarin collar and bands."

So let's stick with band.

Dear George Lo,

Any sentence of my paragraph mentioning about Court of Appeal? Do I ever refer the Honorable Gopal Sri Ram JCA in my statement? I never relate my statements to Court of Appeal and I am certain that you knew Court of Appeal doesn't deal with the process of "called to the bar".

I agree with the statements made by Yong Wan Shin and Yong Wan Shin.

Tan Chun Ming

the link should be http://www.nswbar.asn.au/docs/...attire.pdf .
The last part "...docs/professional/sc_attire.pdf " was missing in my last post.

And my last paragraph should be "Yong Wan Shin and Justin Chin". My apology.

Tan Chun Ming.

The poor young thing . The dress code is man made. It is hardly carved in stone. The lawyer concerned , I pray she has recovered. I just want to tell her , what happened, please take it in your stride. Dont let the memory of it preoccupy your thoughts from this moment on. Learn and inculcate and then forget the whole incident. The public will forget. Make sure that you dont repeat the incident but move on . You will go through much in your career. Ups , downs. You will have to summon up strength almost every step of the way. If this incident had to happen, it must be because you are meant to derive plenty of inner strength and courage from it. And you will be able to handle anything from hereon. Almost literally . With due respect to the Hon Judge, dont let the dressing down ( in more ways than one) hamper you from going all out and showing the world that there is so much more to you than just a missing bib. All the best. Anita Sharma , Alor Star.

It is best to allow the ‘affected’ to forget;
Especially of something which had been ‘bad’.

Their bad experiences suffered from their “fall";
Does not now warrant this recall !

Which only serves to remind them all;
Of the ‘ditch’ into which they did fall.

Even as their wounds had begun to heal;
Let us not now thrust upon them this hurting seal.

We need to be forward looking and caring:
Of the many plights that many others are suffering.

We need to sincerely look upon those plights;
Especially those which are referred to in this website.

That we will continue doing justice, providing what is right;
Instead of trusting only now upon our own hindsight.

Recalling those which are not so good;
Thrusting upon the affected such an unwanted ‘food’.

Instead of helping them to cure their wounds;
That the finale may be wound.

So, why the need for this recall?
To remind those parties of their ‘fall’?


Tan Peek Guat

Dear Tan ,I did not realise that this incident had happened in september last year . and thought it had only just happened.I agree with you that the wound should be allowed to heal. I realised my error only after posting my comment. It was done in good faith as my post very well indicates , if you were to consider the substance of it. Thanks for your comment. By the way , your poem is splendid.